Public sector pay deal - what we know

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

The Hard Shoulder, with Ciara Kelly and Shane Colman. On Newstalk, with Ciara.

Ciara Kelly (0:08)

Now, reports have been emerging all day that the government is close to agreeing a public sector pay deal with unions. Simon Harris has said that he believes an agreement is within reach, and the union's lead negotiator, Kevin Callen, has said that they are committed to trying to close out a deal today. Negotiations are continuing this afternoon, as of now, though, planning for the public sector strike on Thursday is continuing. We will, of course, bring you any breaking news on that as it comes. But joining us now to discuss all of this is Work Correspondent at the Irish Times, Emmet Malone, and former Director of the Workplace Relations Commission, Kieran Mulvey. I'll come to you first of all, Emmet, if I may. What do we know so far about, I suppose, what has been agreed and how close we might be to a full agreement?

Emmet Malone (0:58)

Well, I think we're pretty much into that sort of famous, nothing is agreed until everything is agreed territory. There's a lot of things very close to being tied up. We know that last night, the Kevin Foley government appointed steering group brought the financial package more or less to a conclusion that's in the realms of the 10.5 percent that was being mentioned over three years. But although it has shifted very slightly in a couple of directions.

And there are issues today that were still being completely finalized, like productivity, touching on working from home, AI, stuff like this. So a lot of things, a lot of ball still in the air. But as one of the main negotiators said to me in recent days, once the money gets sorted, then everything else tends to fall into line reasonably quickly.

Ciara Kelly (1:50)

Okay. So we think it's 10.5 percent and a slightly higher headline than that for low-paid public sector workers. Is that right? With something like 2 percent backdated to July?

Emmet Malone (2:01)

Yeah, I think the 10.5 percent has shifted very slightly upwards. The term of the deal has shifted very slightly downwards from three years. And yeah, greater uplifts for the lower paid workers.

So yeah, look, it's much as it was, but a little bit of movement there, a little bit of compromise. The government had come in with that original 10.5 over three year offer and the unions had pushed back against it. And there has been a little bit of movement there to assuage their concerns. But it's broadly speaking in that ballpark.

Ciara Kelly (2:35)

And when you say a bit lower than three years, are we talking 32 months? There was talk between 30 months and 36 months, I suppose.

Emmet Malone (2:44)

I think we're talking 33 months now in the end.

Ciara Kelly (2:47)

33 months in the end and a little bit north of 10.5%. Do we have any idea when we might get white smoke on this? Many people, of course, Emmet, are thinking about their plans for Thursday. They might have kids who won't be in school and they might have to do something with them. They might not work in the public sector. They might be working in the private sector and have jobs to go to. Or indeed, there might be situations where people are trying to get to hospital appointments and stuff and not knowing whether they should set off.

Emmet Malone (3:12)

Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. I think this is absolutely driving the sense of urgency about this now. I think the government really want to avoid that strike on Thursday.

And some of the damage, if this goes into tomorrow, some of the damage will be done anyway. The hospitals will be already acting to keep people from turning up for appointments that they fear aren't going to happen. So there's a definite sense that this needs to happen today to cope with the implications of the strike not going ahead. In the meantime, the unions are organizing for it, continuing to act as if it is going ahead. So it's a difficult situation. It is absolutely driving the process at the moment. And my definite sense, and I think the definite sense around the place is that a deal will be done this evening.

Ciara Kelly (3:57)

Okay. Let me bring in, thank you, Emmet. Let me bring in Kieran Mulvey, former director of the Workplace Relations Committee.

The union's still holding a gun to the government's head up until the 11th hour. Kieran, have you seen this before? There's been quite aggressive tactics from the union in these negotiations. You know, they had a strike even though the government were offering to talk initially and there was money on the table. And indeed, they are refusing to call off the strike currently, even though we know that it would look like most things are already agreed.