Product management theater | Marty Cagan (Silicon Valley Product Group)

**Marty Cagan** (0:00)
There is no question that a lot of companies over hire during the pandemic. I go into some companies and honestly, I can't believe all the ridiculous roles that they have. Agile coaches and product owners and product ops and business analysts.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:13)
And this is essentially the theater you're describing, people that aren't real product managers.

**Marty Cagan** (0:18)
They're dramatically overpaid for the value they provide because it's a project management role. It is a lot easier to deliver output than it is to deliver outcomes.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:27)
What made you decide to write another book and what is it about?

**Marty Cagan** (0:31)
Too many people in our industry view themselves as a victim of their company. Like they're stuck in a feature team and there's nothing they can do about it, other than quit. I think that's not true. There is so much they can do.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:46)
Today, my guest is Marty Cagan. Marty has been helping product teams and product managers improve their craft, processes and careers for over 20 years. He's worked with more product teams and more product managers than any human alive. He's also written two of the most popular books in the field of product management, Inspired and Empowered, and this week he's releasing his newest book, Transformed. In our conversation, we cover some spicy and important topics. Where the product management field is going, the overhiring of product managers and adjacent functions, a trend he's noticed called product management theater, also why most product management advice you find online is giving you the wrong advice and why that's the case, why many product managers are simply project managers, and how to avoid becoming that person, also how to avoid hiring that person, what skills you need to work on and build to be an incredible product manager, especially with AI, how to shift your team and company to be more empowered, signs that you're working on a feature team and why you probably don't want to be there, and so much more. If you care about the field of product management and where it's going, you will absolutely love this episode. With that, I bring you Marty Cagan after a short word from our sponsors. And if you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube. It's the best way to avoid missing future episodes and it helps the podcast tremendously.
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Marty Cagan, welcome back to the podcast.