Part Two: Cult Leaders Target You At Your Weakest. Never Confess This To Them | Rick Alan Ross

Mayim Bialik (0:04)

Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik, and I'm flying solo here today. Jonathan is away, but we're speaking to Rick Alan Ross, a private consultant and cult intervention specialist. He's the author of Cults Inside Out, How People Get In and Can Get Out. And Ross has been qualified, accepted and testified as an expert court witness in 11 different states within the United States, including US Federal Court. He has facilitated more than 500 interventions to rescue people from cultic situations. He is the leading authority on cults. And we're gonna be talking today about the places where cult-like behavior may be making its way into our very own government.

Is Donald Trump, is MAGA a cult? What about Tulsi Gabbard and the allegations surrounding the cult that she was raised in, which may be making its way into our government decisions and communication today? Rick is also gonna talk to us about how many of the psychological mechanisms found in cults appear in everyday life, in our workplaces, in our relationships. There is so much to explore. Make sure to check us out on Substack as well. And here is part two of our conversation with Rick Alan Ross.

Rick Alan Ross (1:12)

Best thing that's ever happened to you financially.

Mayim Bialik (1:15)

Go.

Rick Alan Ross (1:15)

Easy.

SPEAKER_3 (1:16)

Sold my car on Carvana.

Rick Alan Ross (1:17)

Amazing offer. Really?

Mayim Bialik (1:19)

I hit 200 on a scratcher. Did the scratcher come to your house and hand you a check? No.

Rick Alan Ross (1:24)

How many scratchers did you hit to get that?

SPEAKER_3 (1:26)

I hit a button on carvana.com once. Okay.

Rick Alan Ross (1:29)

That's fair.

SPEAKER_3 (1:30)

It's like the lottery, except you always win.

Mayim Bialik (1:33)

Not like the lottery at all, actually.

SPEAKER_3 (1:35)

Exactly.

Mayim Bialik (1:36)

Inexplicably good. Offer's worth bragging about.

SPEAKER_3 (1:40)

Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.

Mayim Bialik (1:43)

Break it down.

Full disclosure, I'm a bleeding heart liberal, right? So when you say psychopath, I hear mental illness, I hear that someone is suffering, I hear that someone is in a different category, and I'm not saying that that's not accurate. But when we start talking about malignant narcissism and we start thinking about some of these personality characteristics, I cannot help it. My mind goes to relationships. And especially with the conversation on social media and how much, you know, you can diagnose this boyfriend or that girlfriend, right? These are terms that we're now throwing around very, very lightly. You're not using them lightly, and you're speaking about them from an appropriate clinical perspective, but and how many times do we see relationships where you are isolated? There's often some form of trauma bonding, right? Some sort of vulnerable connection point or, you know, a place to kind of get in and over-emphasis on someone's weaknesses.

An insertion of this partner as, I'm going to fix you. I'm going to help you. Don't talk to those friends. Come hang out with me more.

Read this book. Let's be together all the time. And it's couched in love. But it actually, I mean, like, I don't know how to say it. How do you know if you are dating someone who is using coercive mind control and calling it love? What is the difference?

Rick Alan Ross (3:19)

I have a chapter, as you know, in my book on abusive controlling relationships. And then there's an example of an intervention I did to get a young woman out of a relationship like that. The warning signs would be, look at the typical behavior of someone with narcissistic personality disorder. And ask yourself, does this fit as a description of the person that I'm involved with? For example, can they be wrong? Or when you point out a mistake or you criticize something they do, are they eventually going to have a meltdown if you persist? Are they gaslighting you? Are they making little critical remarks about what you do and say to undermine your confidence in your own ability to think for yourself?

Are they going after your self-esteem? Are they isolating you? Are they telling you, well, we need to spend more time together. Why do you have to go see that girlfriend? Why do you have to spend so much time with your parents? Do they want you to be in their sphere of influence constantly?

Really, are they shutting other people out? Then I think it's important to ask yourself, what sacrifices has this person made in our relationship? In any relationship, any relationship, people make sacrifices. You sacrifice your time. You don't go to this or that function in order to spend more time with a person. Maybe you even make a financial sacrifice.