One Man's War: Rommel & Gazala (Part 3)

Al Murray (0:09)

You've got to understand about managing men. Some men can command and have the common touch, and some men can only command by establishing their authority with their rank. And it takes a good man to do both, and some can't do it.

You have to win respect. And they don't just respect you because you're an officer, they respect you because of who you are. And that's the difference.

And if you come through the ranks and you spurs that way, you automatically have that right. My fellows called me Brad. I was known as Brad. When I was a corporal, my troop officer called me Brad, and I called him Peter, only when we were together. He'd been his schoolmaster. He used to lean on me a good deal because I had the experience. Those are the words, again, of Sam Bradshaw, describing his understanding of command and authority. Welcome, everyone, to We Have Ways of Making You Talk with me, Al Murray and James Holland, of course. And we're looking at the life of one man in the Second World War, Sam Bradshaw, who you interviewed, Jim, many years ago.

James Holland (1:04)

Yeah, I did. And what a lovely fellow he was. He was one of my favorites. And as I think I said when we were recording this first episode, the thing about him is just he was just so articulate and moving about it. And Frank, he obviously had a brilliant memory. He hadn't forgotten anything. It all felt very, very real. He was a young man in a hurry when he went off and he quickly became quite jaded, as we will discover in the next couple of episodes. But anyway, we left, Sam, didn't we?

At the beginning of Operation Compass in the last episode, which is the first major British offensive against the Italians in the Western Desert in North Africa, beginning in December 1941 And they obviously, you know, the Western Desert Fort, Undertick O'Connor, absolutely rout the Italian 10th Army. What we should also do is tell his story, but we should also pause here and there to kind of consider his own reflections on the experiences and his attitudes to other people and to rank and to the people he came up against and not least the Italians, which I think is kind of interesting.

Al Murray (2:11)

I mean, in the last episode we touched on that the Italians don't, they don't really put up much of a fight and they've got their lovely leather luggage and their loafers and they're ready to leave after compass. There is something slightly different about the British attitude to the Italians, because after all, they had been allies in the previous war, hadn't they? It's not like the Germans where it's all right, you want it again, do you?

That sort of attitude, it's, oh, you've changed sides, have you? And there is a sense of betrayal, isn't there? And a sense of-

James Holland (2:39)

Stabbing her back.

Al Murray (2:40)

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Italy soon after the First World War becomes to resent its position amongst the world powers, doesn't it? Because it feels it's been sort of double crossed by its senior partners in the alliance against the Central European powers. But, you know, that doesn't mean- that doesn't translate to a British point of view, where you think, well, hang on a minute, I thought we were pals. And we're not. It's interesting, isn't it? Because Sam doesn't-

he's not really, you know, he's shocked by what he sees, isn't he? Because he sees infantry bayoneting Italians through their tents and stuff, doesn't he?

James Holland (3:16)

Yes. And he thinks that his resentment has led to a kind of degree of cruelty. He thinks he'll slightly cross his line. But, you know, but he also points out that, you know, lots of bad things do happen. And he was- and I remember him saying that, you know, it didn't take much, you know, someone's brother's been killed or something, so they want revenge and it kind of percolates through.

And I remember him talking about this time where, you know, when he was in Tobruk at the end of the Gazala battles and, you know, he remembers being attacked by Stukas and they hit a hospital. And, you know, whether they were diving on it deliberately or not, they just hit it, you know, who knows? But as far as Ekrem is concerned, it was deliberate and it was, you know, proves that they're all evil Nazi bastards and all the rest of it. And one Stuka gets hit and the pilot bailes out but he's shot to pieces by the Aussies below and killed before he hits the ground.