On Steve Jobs, Drugs, AI, Risk and the Enduring Magic of Silicon Valley

**John Markoff** (0:01)
The more sort of ironic thing that I like to bring up is I delivered newspapers to the future homes of both Steve Jobs and Larry Page. The irony is that those are the guys I would argue did more than any two people on the face of the earth to change the way news is delivered. So I was their paper boy. The microprocessor was going to change the world. And I looked at it and I thought, well, that'd be a good thing to focus on.
It turned out it was a great thing to focus on. It kept me busy for an entire career. The most hypocritical part of Elon, various hypocrisies, is his notion in setting up Neuralink that somehow by binding humans more tightly, coupling them more tightly to the machine, that was going to allow us to control the machines. Did he not watch Star Trek? Did he not ever see the Borg? Does he not know what resistance is futile? You will be assimilated. I think the most important thing in developing this technology is you can be able to take the glasses off.

**Ashlee Vance** (1:09)
We're going to talk to John Markoff, the famous legend of covering the tech industry for a number of places, but most prominently at The New York Times for many years. John and I worked together at The New York Times for about three years. More to the point though, he was the figure that I aspired to be like. He's always written about the technology industry with heart and soul and a deep interest in the actual tech itself and was for sure my role model. So this one is an extra special treat for me. We're going to talk a little Silicon Valley history, a little Elon, a little AI, where the world is heading and get John's just amazing perspective on this place and what it all means. So I'm sure you're going to enjoy the show and as ever, please subscribe, leave a couple of reviews. It apparently helps us out quite a bit and thank you for listening.
John Markoff, hello.

**John Markoff** (2:26)
Hey, Ashlee. Long time no chat.

**Ashlee Vance** (2:28)
I know, too long. How are you?

**John Markoff** (2:31)
Above ground and taking solid food. I'm good.

**Ashlee Vance** (2:36)
I'm really looking forward to this. I think I'm going to be a little indulgent. We've known each other for a long time, but there's a whole bunch of questions about your career and thoughts on Silicon Valley that I don't think I ever had a proper chat with you about.
I hope that sounds okay.

**John Markoff** (2:53)
It sounds fine. With the caveat, you have to realize that I feel like I'm Rip Van Winkle in many ways. So we'll see what I can remember.

**Ashlee Vance** (3:03)
Do you happen to remember the first time we ever met? I suspect you don't, but.

**John Markoff** (3:10)
I think it was, was it at CNET or something like that? It was somewhere, Soma.

**Ashlee Vance** (3:15)
Kind of, it was that, yeah. The, at a coffee shop. But, you know, I, I was, well, I was 22 years old and I had just started my first job actually at IDG and I was this cub reporter and I was reading everything I could and trying to figure out who I might want to try to be like one day. And, and you were the, were the standard to which I aspired. And I remember I dropped you an email and I thought, there's no way this guy's going to write me back and meet up for a coffee. And you did. That you, you, you had coffee with this young idiot. And it always-

**John Markoff** (3:55)
I forgot my coffee, but-

**Ashlee Vance** (3:57)
That, that always stood out to me that you were, you were kind enough to do that. I've tried to, you set a good impression. I've tried to do that, you know, as much as, as I can, as I've gotten.

**John Markoff** (4:07)
Yeah.

**Ashlee Vance** (4:08)
You always are in a lot. I've been fascinated by your life and career and all the wonderful things you've written and explored. And I was, I was digging around the internet. I mean, there's some information about this and some stuff I know, but there's not as much as I, as I thought. I mean, can you set the stage for people a little bit about, about growing up in Silicon Valley and-

**John Markoff** (4:36)
Sure. You know, I grew up in Palo Alto before there was a Silicon Valley. You know, Silicon Valley was named in 1971 by Don Hoffler. So I grew up, I literally played in the Hewlett family household when I was in elementary school. They lived, the Hewlett family lived about six blocks away from my house. The more sort of ironic thing that I like to bring up is I delivered newspapers to the future homes of both Steve Jobs and Larry Page, which the irony is that those are the guys I would argue did more than any two people on the face of the earth to change the way news is delivered. So I was their paper boy. I was their pre-paper boy.