My So-Called Life (1994) - So-Called Angels (Season 1, Episode 15)

Winnie Holzman (0:01)

Hi, I'm Winnie Holzman.

Wilson Cruz (0:03)

And I'm Wilson Cruz.

Winnie Holzman (0:05)

So, this is So-Called Angels. And I just want to say that the beginning shots, this shot and this coming upon him bloody like this in the snow, this was Scott, I can remember Scott saying to me, this is how I want the episode to start. And he just had this picture, this image in his mind, of starting cold on Wilson after the fact, and in a kind of mysterious way, just not knowing what had happened.

Wilson Cruz (0:40)

That was the first thing in the episode we actually shot, believe it or not. And it was hard.

It was hard.

Winnie Holzman (0:50)

It was hard in what way?

Wilson Cruz (0:53)

Well, you know, this had actually happened to me less than a year from when we actually shot this episode. So I had been kicked out of my house because I came out to my father the Christmas before this. And we shot this in October, if I remember correctly. And I wasn't really ready to even talk about it, let alone relive it.

Winnie Holzman (1:15)

And you and I were just saying that I'm not sure you, and I don't think you and I have had a conversation about that, I think I may have known. I'm not sure if I knew or not.

Wilson Cruz (1:26)

I think I may have told you like in passing that something had happened, but I know we didn't have a huge conversation about it because I wasn't really ready to talk about it yet.

Winnie Holzman (1:35)

You didn't go into specifics certainly. Yeah. And I felt-

Wilson Cruz (1:41)

But this is the way things would happen. Like you and I, you know, you would write things, and I mean, even with the pilot, I read the pilot, and I was like, this woman knows who I am. It's bizarre. And it would happen throughout the season where I would read things, and I'd be like, how does she know that?

SPEAKER_4 (1:59)

How come we never go to church?

Wilson Cruz (2:01)

And it would freak me out.

SPEAKER_5 (2:02)

Uh, well.

SPEAKER_3 (2:04)

Well, you know-

Winnie Holzman (2:05)

It's so funny that would happen a lot. It was kind of neat.

SPEAKER_6 (2:09)

Yeah.

SPEAKER_3 (2:10)

I haven't shown much enthusiasm.

SPEAKER_7 (2:12)

So do you believe in God?

SPEAKER_6 (2:16)

Well, look, just because we-

SPEAKER_3 (2:17)

You know, just because we don't attend church on a regular basis doesn't mean that-

SPEAKER_8 (2:20)

I mean, you can believe in God without-

SPEAKER_3 (2:23)

Yeah, because, you know, your father was raised Catholic, and I wasn't, so we have certain- certain differences, which doesn't mean that we don't follow-

Wilson Cruz (2:33)

One of my favorite lines.

SPEAKER_7 (2:34)

When do you keep talking about religion?

SPEAKER_3 (2:37)

It's Christmas.

Winnie Holzman (2:38)

I love that line. It's Jason Kadem's. Yeah, Jason wrote this with me.

Wilson Cruz (2:42)

Oh, Jason.

Winnie Holzman (2:43)

And that was such- that was one great line.

Wilson Cruz (2:47)

I love Jason Kadem's.

Winnie Holzman (2:48)

Yeah, I love him too. And his father was in this.

SPEAKER_7 (2:52)

Robert Kadem's.

Winnie Holzman (2:52)

I almost forgot.

SPEAKER_4 (2:54)

You mean you don't?

SPEAKER_7 (2:55)

Well, yeah, but my mom and I like to wait-

Wilson Cruz (2:57)

I have to be honest, this whole episode-

Yes? I don't remember shooting it.

Winnie Holzman (3:04)

Really?

Wilson Cruz (3:06)

All these people had to like help me.

SPEAKER_5 (3:07)

It was stupid as-

Wilson Cruz (3:09)

I remember being in a fog, and I-

Winnie Holzman (3:13)

Because of the material?

Wilson Cruz (3:14)

Yeah. Yeah. It was all very surreal. Does anybody have quarters? To be shooting this and to be doing this. Will that change? And I remember when it was over, it was-

I remember thinking, wow, that was really cathartic.

At the time, it was hard, but when it was over, I thought, I'm so glad that I got to do that, to kind of relive it in a way and then be able to walk away from it.

Winnie Holzman (3:38)

Right.

And put it out there. Yeah.

Wilson Cruz (3:42)

And can I tell you that when it aired two months later, my father saw it on TV, and we hadn't spoken for a year, and he called me after watching it. And this episode is the reason why I have a relationship with my father.

Winnie Holzman (4:02)

Oh, wow. Wilson, that's beautiful. Thank you for telling me that.

Wilson Cruz (4:08)

I mean.

Winnie Holzman (4:09)

It's so touching.