Most Replayed Moment: Chris Williamson Explains Why Finding Love Feels Harder Than Ever.

SPEAKER_1 (0:01)

This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Between two-factor authentication, strong passwords, and a VPN, you try to be in control of how your info is protected. But many other places also have it, and they might not be as careful. That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com/podcast for 40% off. Terms apply.

Chris Williamson (0:30)

One of the biggest leavers, in fact, the single biggest predictor of your health outcomes in life are the number of close connections that you have. It's more than quitting smoking, it's more than going to the gym, it's more than stopping drinking. 50% of men say that they are not looking for a relationship.

Steven Bartlett (0:45)

When they say I'm not looking for a relationship, do they mean I'm not looking for a woman or I'm not looking for commitment?

Chris Williamson (0:49)

Not actively pursuing any kind of interaction with women.

Steven Bartlett (0:53)

Oh, where did we go wrong? And how do we go right?

Chris Williamson (0:56)

Okay, so 50.1% of women for the first time in history are mothers. There are more childless women at 30 than there are women with children, right? So for almost all of human history, more women had kids under the age of 30 than over. And now it's switched. There's a study from Morgan Stanley that says by 2040, 45% of 25 to 45-year-old women will be single and childless.

If online dating was creating this perfect facilitation for relationships to start, how are we ending up with all of these outcomes? That's a question.

Steven Bartlett (1:43)

What's wrong with the outcomes?

Chris Williamson (1:46)

What do you mean? Why should people care about being single?

Steven Bartlett (1:48)

All the stats you've just said, I could look at them and say they're just sort of objectively neutral. Like there's no adverse consequence to society or the world. It's fine that people aren't having kids. It's fine that people aren't having sex. I'm playing devil's advocate here, but like what is the negative consequence of all of those outcomes that you've described in your view?

Chris Williamson (2:09)

There are people for whom a life without a partner is the right choice. That's absolutely something that I'm prepared to accept, but it's not most people. It's one of the biggest leavers. In fact, the single biggest predictor of your health outcomes in life are the number of close connections that you have. It's the number of friends. It's more than quitting smoking. It's more than going to the gym. It's more than stopping drinking. It's the number of close friends that you've got. And a relationship is a big close friend. Robin Dunbar says that in order to get into a relationship, you have to sacrifice two friendships. Because you can have around about five very close friends. If you want to get into a relationship, you need to get rid of two of them, because there is a minimum time investment. So people that are in relationships have better health outcomes. They have onset of dementia later. They have Alzheimer's problems later on in life. They are less lonely.

That seems pretty uncontroversial. And yet, both sides of the aisle, both men and women are retreating from relationships and finding ways that they can justify this. You know, boss bitch culture and sort of the lean in women's mentality or men going their own way and incel culture and the black pill for guys are both ways that each sex is trying to deal with the challenges that are coming out of the mating market. Both sexes are saying, I don't want to be a part of this anymore. I'm finding it so painful and difficult to be in this world that I'm just going to cast off any of it altogether. And then retroactively come up with a lot of explanations that can justify why they didn't need to be in a relationship in any case. And for some people, that's true. But for most people, that's not.

Steven Bartlett (3:59)

Dating apps are clearly not, you know, as you say in your own words and previously aren't the only causal factor. So my question to you is, where did we go wrong? And how do we go right?

Chris Williamson (4:12)

Okay, so I think challenges in the mating market are coming from many directions. One of the main ones that will be pertinent to the people that are listening is the increase in female achievement in education and employment. Now, about 50 years ago, when Title IX came in, there was a 13 percentage point swing in favor of men to women in universities. There were significantly more men than women.