Moment 159: The Most Important Sex Advice You NEED To Hear: Esther Perel

Steven Bartlett (0:00)

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When couples do come to you with sexlessness in their relationship, again, we have to define what sexlessness is, but they stopped having sex. It's been six months since they've had sex.

Esther Perel (1:10)

Six months. Why not 16 years?

Steven Bartlett (1:13)

You've had that?

Esther Perel (1:15)

Six months. Yes. I mean, when we talk about a block, some breach, an impasse, a shutdown, we're not talking months. And by the way, this is not people. This is your best friends and you don't know.

Steven Bartlett (1:36)

I asked them. I was shocked.

Esther Perel (1:38)

That's why Where Should We Begin became so... People began to see that this is not just some others or just them, that it actually is very common. And so sexlessness is not about frequency, though at some point for some people it means nothing, nothing for years. And then you ask, do you still kiss? Do you hold? Do you touch? Do you rub skin? Is there any physicality still? Is there affection that may not be sexual touch, but that is affectionate touch? So you really look at the broad definition. And then you ask, what is it that you would want?

Are you prepared to take the chance?

Steven Bartlett (2:24)

I don't want that. I want to know how I get back from that place, but also I want to know how I avoid getting to that place.

It's two separate answers, I guess. There's 16 years in no sex. How do we get back?

Esther Perel (2:40)

So first and foremost, maybe this is a place to start. When I think about the conversations I have about sex with the people I work with, individuals or couples, and I think probably the best way for you is to listen to it in the podcast episodes because you can hear how one begins to have this conversation. It's that sex is not about a five-minute foreplay that is just in preparation for the real thing. And the real thing in a straight couple is penetration and orgasm, and then you know it worked.

That model, that performance model of, you know, with an outcome is so not what I'm talking about. This is what couples have had for centuries. People have had sex. I mean, you can do it and feel nothing. That's not the goal. So I don't care how often. I care about the quality of the experience, that the connection you have with yourself and with another. And so it has, we talk about touch. We talk about giving touch and taking touch. We talk about fantasy, imagination. We talk about how do you ask for the things that you like, but that doesn't mean just touch me here, touch me there. It's how do you communicate sexually? What is that translation from Spanish to French? You know, how do you say to somebody, I enjoy this. I would enjoy that more. How do you create a vocabulary that isn't negative and critical and castrating? How do you pay attention to how the other person is responding? And not just say, why don't you like this? Everybody else likes this, that kind of stuff. So it's very, very rich, you know, and the definition of sex is really way beyond this. And so you start to ask people about their imaginative life, around what excites them, around peak experiences that they have had, around the kind of touch that they enjoy, around what do you look for in sex? Is it a communion? Is it a spiritual union? Is it a free experience of being dominated, of giving yourself over to someone, of being naughty, of not having to be responsible and take care of other people, which you do the whole day? What do you look for in sex? Where do you go? What do you seek to express there? These are conversations a lot of people, most people have never had.