Mentalism or Magic? The Line That Divides #272

**Josh Norbido** (0:13)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode 272 of The Magic Guys. I'm Josh Norbido. And to my left, we've got Nick Kay.

**Nick Kay** (0:23)
I'm Nick Kay.

**Josh Norbido** (0:26)
Or as I like to call him, Nicholas Cage. And Doug Conn is currently running the Trick Supply Store. He couldn't make it today, but he is around and he's going to have a lot to say after this episode, because it's a topic that everyone has an opinion on.
It sure is. And we're glad that you're here in the chat. So Nick, thank you for writing this episode.

**Nick Kay** (0:49)
Buddy, this topic can divide nations. It really can. And it's the type of thing that I felt, it's been brought to my attention quite a bit over the past few weeks. And so I felt compelled to journal on this a little bit. And yeah, everyone's input is going to be deeply valued. So with that being said, we do have a comments section. So please take it upon yourself to share your thoughts on the topics. We'll be debating quite a few things along the way, little by little. It's a very open debate. No one's controlling the terms, but it's going to make for a good time. Again, pop your comments and thoughts in the chat. There's some folks already in there. We got Scotty Link in there. We got Nick. Good to see you, bud. Tim Askin, them questions and having opinions. And Adonis, he's going to have some thoughts on this as well. So I'm looking forward to that. And the Emergency Magician, that sounds like fun.

**Josh Norbido** (1:40)
What is an Emergency Magician?

**Nick Kay** (1:42)
You ever have a heart attack and then just the guy comes and gives you a card? Yeah, but that's just like that, just like that.

**Josh Norbido** (1:50)
Right, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's good.
Yeah, well, that just flattened the topic, didn't it? The conversation.
Speaking of which, long card. All right, next question. We also have a speak pipe we're going to run with before we begin. We love having you guys starting off the podcast. We make it for you, so we love to hear from you. You know what I mean? Today's one comes in from Patrick. I think you just got it in today. Let's check it out.

**SPEAKER_3** (2:20)
All right, lads, it's Patrick here. Greetings from the UK.
I am having some real trouble actually performing for people in the wild. Real trouble. I've tried sitting in coffee shops, just getting used to the ebb and flow of people.
I've tried being in a busy bar, and my social anxiety just collapsed my arse shut. So I don't know what to do, because I really want to do this as a job and turn tricks for money, like you guys are doing so successfully. But I don't know whether to jump straight on stage into a small 30-minute or 40-minute show, where I'm in control of the whole environment, or whether to go to an old people's home and try and impress some nannas first. Would me going straight on stage in that environment, give me confidence in walk around and more intimate, small party sort of settings where the day-to-day money is made? Or would it potentially completely kill any momentum altogether and be totally terrifying? We'd love to hear your input on this, lads. Cheers.

**Nick Kay** (3:35)
All right. Can I speak to that for a sec, Josh? Because I think that what's the thing about doing a roving act to a stage show is that the interaction can end the moment you walk away at a roving act. You go to a table, you spend three minutes, you walk away. If you were committed to a 30-minute set, in my opinion, that is 30 minutes that they are locked in, engaged, no one escapes.
I think that if you're having an anxiety about performing, that is a scarier thing, in my opinion, because it means that if anything does go wrong, you've got to wear that burden for 30 whole minutes with the same people in the group. The beauty of being able to do a roving act is that if you, let's say that you're doing a routine, and there's the smallest flash or something, one person out of 10 notices at the table, for example.
The cool thing about that is that when you're roving, you get to go to the next table and you can just give it a second chance and rectify the exact same thing you've done. So I think that in order to get over your anxieties, Pat, I think that repetition is going to be one of the most valuable things for you. And I would lean into doing that because you could literally do four tricks, three tricks even, in a roving setting, going from table to table, group to group, in these opportunities, right, where you can just do the same thing again and again. And because you're doing it so frequently, you will get better at it and gain your confidence from it, and thus your anxieties will disperse. But if you were to do this in a show, it means that you have to do a 30-minute show, and then another 30-minute show, and another 30-minute show, and another 30-minute show to achieve the same results. And so that your progression and getting over these anxieties will take a lot longer for that reason. So, I think that if there's an opportunity to do any roving at a voluntary rate, or, you know, like you'll just go to a bar and maintain a friendship or whatever else, do it for peanuts if you have to, or do it for a meal, that's probably the best way to do it, but you're going to get your most value out of that. Josh, what do you think?