Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan Take Us Inside Trump’s ‘Imperial Presidency’

**Maggie Haberman** (0:00)
He is the most consequential president, certainly of my lifetime, certainly of Jonathan's lifetime, depends on how long we live. Maybe it'll remain that way, but he's not just going away.

**Kara Swisher** (0:09)
That is very true.
Hi everyone from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is On with Kara Swisher and I'm Kara Swisher. Covering President Donald Trump's second term is not an easy job, but few people do it better than New York Times reporters, Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan. Their new book, Regime Change, is out now. It's an incredible account of Trump's return to the White House in January 2025 and the chaotic year that followed. We all remember the headlines like the outrageous cabinet picks, the ICE raids, the Doge cuts, and the gifted Qatari jet, to name just a few. But Maggie and Jonathan's book takes readers inside the conversations at Mar-a-Lago, in the Oval Office, and even in the Situation Room, to tell the stories behind those headlines. What comes through is a portrait of a president and administration untethered from the historical constraints of the office and willing to take extraordinary risks in the pursuit of absolute power. I think it's really important to chronicle this in real time, especially the enormous amount of corruption going on with the Trump family, which has essentially monetized the White House for their own benefit. As I have said, Trump is a coin-operated president, and as you'll see here, a lot of people have been putting coins into the vending machine. One more thing before we get started, if you're going to be in Washington DC on July 16th, please join us at the Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg Center for a live taping of On. I'll be talking to Gina Raimondo, Commerce Secretary under President Biden and former Rhode Island Governor, about what AI means for the American workforce. As a special bonus before that conversation, I'll be speaking with Johns Hopkins President Ron Daniels and University of Notre Dame President Father Robert Dowd about how universities are approaching AI and workforce issues. You can get tickets and learn more at voxmedia.com/karaswisherlive.
All right, let's get to my conversation with Maggie and Jonathan. They are second to none when it comes to covering Trump. This is a fascinating conversation, stick around.
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It is on.

**Kara Swisher** (4:25)
Maggie and Jonathan, thank you for coming on on. I'm excited to talk to you about this book. Thanks for having us. Maggie, you've said in a few interviews that writing this book nearly killed you and Jonathan. You said that unlike Trump's first term, you had to assume people in the administration were not telling the truth to start with. Yet you capture some incredible scenes in the book down to the empty ice cream cartons and potato chip bags that Trump would leave on the floor of the White House bedroom.