Lucy Kalanithi: What Loss Can Teach Us About Living (The Perspective Shift That Changes Everything)

**Jay Shetty** (0:00)
Ten years after losing a husband, Lucy joins me to explore what grief looks like after a decade.

**Lucy Kalanithi** (0:06)
He ultimately got the news that he had a chest x-ray that essentially looked like a cloudy sky. I mean, it was like dense with tumors. We both knew what it meant.
I never thought I was going to feel okay. It was like Paul died and I was like, it's all over.

**Jay Shetty** (0:21)
What did being so close to death teach you about life and living?

**Lucy Kalanithi** (0:25)
There's two big questions. What would be left undone? And how can I live most fully in the time I have left?

**Jay Shetty** (0:36)
Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is Dr. Lucy Kalanithi. Ten years after losing her husband, bestselling author and neurosurgeon Paul Kalanithi, Lucy joins me to explore what grief looks like after a decade. How love evolves after loss and what being so close to death can teach us about being fully alive.
Lucy Kalanithi, welcome to On Purpose.

**Lucy Kalanithi** (1:04)
Thanks for having me.

**Jay Shetty** (1:05)
I have waited for this conversation since I read the book and When Breath Becomes Air. And I read it when I still lived in New York, when I moved to the States. And it moved me so much because I hadn't really come across a book like that, but felt like it was written at such a powerful moment and such a pivotal moment in someone's life. And then to have your reflections within it as well, it's kind of left an imprint on me. And then my team and I were sitting down and we're thinking about books that had an impact on us as a team.
And this came to mind immediately. And so I can't tell you how grateful I am for your time and energy for the trip over here. I know you've traveled here especially to be with us in LA. And I just want to start off by saying thank you.

**Lucy Kalanithi** (1:56)
Thank you so much.

**Jay Shetty** (1:57)
Tell me what does it feel like remembering Paul 10 years on?

**Lucy Kalanithi** (2:02)
I used to think life was like a mountain that you climb, like I'll follow the path and then I'll get where I'm going. And now like having lost Paul, having taken our daughter from being a baby to now being a seventh grader, I think of life much more as like a series of moments. In a way it's like that my marriage and Paul's illness and even medical school, right? Those were all mixed together, medical school residency, being married, losing him. That was like a chapter and now I'm in such a different chapter. It's actually kind of amazing for the opportunity to like dip back in, like to get sort of like talking about Paul in a way that's really embodied because you're also experiencing him and we're talking about him in like in a real way.
And at the same time, he's like sprinkled through my life all over the place. Like, you know, I'll go through like a break up and think like, what would Paul say, you know, in the situation, to me, to him. And also just like, what would Paul think of Katie? She's so different. She's such a like singular, specific person, not a baby, you know. So I guess like the things I can say about it are like 10 years on. You know, I never thought I was going to feel okay. It was like Paul died and I was like, it's all over. Who am I? What happened? Like, it's me and I'm here and I have this baby, but I'm so lonely.
How is this ever going to fill in? And my mom said like things will fill in, it'll become okay. And I was like, I literally don't believe you. But it's like things do, like things become okay.
And then at the same time, like even after you lose someone, like they don't even remain static, even though they're gone, like you're not static. You continue to learn new things about them. You know, with Paul, I hear from Paul's readers about his book and that's sort of like an ongoing relationship with him through other people. Anyway, I guess it's all just like a beautiful, terrible mix.

**Jay Shetty** (3:56)
Thank you for sharing that. Is there anything you understand differently about Paul?

**Lucy Kalanithi** (4:01)
Yeah. I mean, like the thing that makes me feel like when a person deters is actually a thing I don't yet understand, which is, you know, Paul, he was a doctor. He was a young neurosurgeon, really interested in meaning and mortality, like thought he would become a professor of philosophy or a writer. And then sort of surprised himself by going into medicine.