Lenval Logan: “We’ve Seen Better” | Grusch, UAP Footage & The Phenom App

Andy (0:00)

Hi folks, and welcome to That UFO Podcast. Today, a returning guest, I am joined once again by Lenval Logan. Some of you may remember Logan as a retired US. Air Force intelligence analyst, former member of the UAP Task Force, and CEO of Phenom LLC. Now, Lenval has spent years working within the Intel community and was directly involved in the early UAP Task Force efforts, putting him alongside the names that have since become central to the whole conversation, David Grusch, Jay Stratton and others. In this interview, we catch up on where things stand today, including those massive claims of David Grusch just recently on Joe Rogan, what Logan remembers from his own time looking at UAP material, the challenge of separating what is known from speculation, and some of the unusual cases and experiences that continue to shape his view of the phenomenon. Logan also discussed his own approach as an intelligence analyst, the importance of combining classified and unclassified information, and why he believes a huge amount of potentially useful citing data has still never been properly collected. That brings us to later in the conversation, we're joined by Logan's colleague, Matt Stevens, who talks about the next stage of their Phenom app, a citizen science platform designed to allow people to report, document and collaborate around UAP and other anomalous experiences, while placing particular emphasis on protecting experiencers and their data. There's a lot to get through on this one. Let's get into it with Lenval Logan.

Welcome back to the podcast. Lenval Logan. Logan, welcome mate. How are you?

Lenval Logan (1:43)

I'm doing fine, man.

Andy (1:45)

Good. Good to have you. It's been a while. I didn't actually realize it had been as long. It was January 2025 when we last spoke, and things and time travels fast, doesn't it? We've got a lot to talk about today because what, 18, 20 months it's been since you were last on?

Lenval Logan (2:02)

Yeah. Yeah.

Andy (2:06)

We're going to have another guest join later in the podcast, Matthew Stevens, who is your colleague who's working on the Phenom app with you. He's developing the app, is that right?

Lenval Logan (2:16)

Yeah. He's developing with some other guy, but he's more the, he's what I call the production man. He brings it all together, make sure that everything's working, and he does programming and stuff like that, and I'm blessed to have him.

Andy (2:32)

Yeah. Well, we're going to bring in Matthew a little bit later on, but a lot to talk about beforehand. Just a few days ago, Logan, David Grusch came back into the public on an interview with Joe Rogan. I take it you have seen that interview at this point?

Lenval Logan (2:47)

Yes. Yes, I've seen it.

Andy (2:49)

When you watched it, what are your thoughts? Because we've had two David Grusch interviews now. I don't know if you noticed this, David Grusch's first interview was like 2-0-5-6, and this was 2-6-5-0, so a little bit of numeracy for folks who like that kind of stuff.

A lot seems to have changed from what David Grusch said first time round, to second time round, so take away with your thoughts.

Lenval Logan (3:14)

Initially, the way I look at it is, when you first come on a podcast and everything, and you talk to the public, there's a lot you're holding back. There's, I mean, a lot. Because you're trying to get comfortable with the audience, the camera and everything, and there's all these other external factors that you're trying to pull in. Once you get a little bit more comfortable, now you can sit there and say, okay, here's some of the things that I wanted to tell you before that I didn't, but I'd like to get the chance to tell you now. And then from there, what you can do is, as you feel more comfortable, I mean, he feels very comfortable with Joe Rogan. And so now he could come forward and catch you up on what he's been doing since the last time he talked. Kind of like we're doing now. We talked in 2025, but we're catching up. And there's some things that I never talked about the first time that I may get a chance to talk to you about today because they were things that made me feel uncomfortable and I just wasn't ready to share with the public.

So that's pretty much I would say, but when David first came to the Task Force or what we call the Inter-Agency Task Force or whatever you wanted to call it, I was the one that got the call. You know, he, I'm just sitting there one day and the phone rings and I hear, is this Logan? And I go, yeah. And he said, are you running the Weird Desk? And I was like, yeah, because that's what everybody was calling it back then, Weird Desk, you know? And I was like, yeah. And he goes, I'm Major Grush. And I'd like to talk to someone about how I get in this because I'm interested in this. This is something really interesting to me. And I was like, kind of the same thing I did with Louis Elizondo. I was like, well, if, you know, he told me where he worked, but I was like, still, I don't know this guy from Adam. So I was like, if he can make it through the door, of where I worked, because where I worked was classified, then we'll see. And two weeks later, I hear that very distinctive voice. I'm looking for Logan. I'm like, oh shit, he's here. So we talk. And after I checked enough about him, I was like, dude, your clearances are above mine.