Judy Chicago

**SPEAKER_1** (0:01)
Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of maximumfun.org and is distributed by NPR.

**Jesse Thorn** (0:21)
It's Bullseye, I'm Jesse Thorn. Judy Chicago, artist, was indeed born in Chicago. She wasn't born with that last name, she changed it in 1970 after taking out a magazine to announce the whole thing. Anyway, from day one, Judy Chicago knew she wanted to be an artist. I mean, like basically day one, four or five years old, probably before she could tie her shoes. And unlike a lot of kids who dream big like that, Judy Chicago grew up and became an artist, one of the greats.
If you know her for one work of art, it's one called The Dinner Party. Imagine a huge table, big enough for 39 people in the shape of a triangle, huge slabs that look like marble, maybe granite. And at the table are 39 unique place settings, a plate, a goblet, a tablecloth. Each place set for a different woman who made an impact in history. Sojourner Truth, Queen Elizabeth I, Ishtar, the Mesopotamian goddess of war, Georgia O'Keeffe. Every plate and tablecloth uniquely designed in the spirit of the woman it honors. It's breathtaking. If you live in New York, you can see it basically whenever you want. The Brooklyn Museum displays it year round as part of their permanent collection. Judy Chicago, who just celebrated her 87th birthday, is more than just the artist who made the dinner party. Chicago works in media as diverse as paintings, live performances, and even fireworks. Every other year, the city of Venice hosts the Biennale, one of the biggest art events in the world. This year in Venice, there is a career-spanning exhibition of Chicago's work. It's called The Materiality of Judy Chicago. You can catch it at Galleria Alberta Pane, now through November 22nd.
So thrilled to talk with Judy, a true legend. Let's roll.
Judy Chicago, welcome to Bullseye. I'm so happy and delighted to have you on the show.

**Judy Chicago** (2:24)
Thank you.

**Jesse Thorn** (2:25)
I know that you are one of those folks who always imagined herself as an artist, even as a young kid. What did that mean to you when you were a young kid?

**Judy Chicago** (2:37)
It meant I wanted to grow up and be a famous artist, and I grew up in Chicago. At five, I started. This is inconceivable to people now. I lived on this street called Bittersweet, which went one block from Clarendon to Marine Drive.
Right across the street from us, there was a bus that stopped right there, and it went downtown to the Chicago Art Institute.
Starting when I was five, I would cross the street, get on the bus by myself, go downtown every Saturday to the Chicago Art Institute where I started studying art.
Now, that's inconceivable that a parent would allow their child to do that. But I was perfectly fine.

**Jesse Thorn** (3:33)
What were you doing at the Chicago Institute of Art as a five-year-old?

**Judy Chicago** (3:37)
Taking art classes.

**Jesse Thorn** (3:39)
Were they classes for five-year-olds?

**Judy Chicago** (3:41)
They were children's classes. The Art Institute had something called the Junior School, very famous. A lot of famous artists came out of it. When I started at five, I come from very modest background. We had no money. My mother borrowed a membership card from a friend of hers, because one of the perks of the membership card was that your kid could go downtown to these big classes. They were held in an auditorium. There were like 200 kids. There'd be models on stage or still lives, and we all drew. Then when I was eight, even though we didn't have any money, my mother managed to put together enough money to actually send me to junior school classes, which were small classes.
I don't know, from the time I think I was 11 till the time I was 17, I had one teacher who nurtured me.
Years later, in fact, when the dinner party was in Chicago, I took him for a tour around the dinner party, and he spoke very softly. We walked around the dinner party arm in arm, and at the end, he said to me, I always know you are going to do something important.

**SPEAKER_5** (5:16)
That's as good as it gets.

**Judy Chicago** (5:18)
Yeah, he said it. Manny Jacobson.

**Jesse Thorn** (5:23)
Did you think when you were a kid that being an artist was drawing and painting?

**Judy Chicago** (5:29)
Yes.
I was classically trained in drawing and painting. I mean, I work for the model work. You know, they don't even teach drawing anymore in art school. It's disgraceful. And we used to go to the Field Museum and draw from skeletons of animals and from animals. So I was classically trained.