Judd Apatow: "Never Stop Learning and Never Stop Growing"

Judd Apatow (0:00)

Would you rather work with someone mediocre who's really easy and kind and fun to deal with, or would you rather work with a genius who's a pain in the ass? I would rather work with a genius.

Michael Gervais (0:09)

What does it take to stay emotionally grounded in an industry that is built on ego? Welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by training and training a high-performance psychologist. Today's guest is the legendary writer, director and producer, Judd Apatow, whose work has helped launch some of the biggest names in comedy. Seth Rogen, Emma Stone, Amy Schumer, Jack Black. We explore the inner workings of a master of craft.

Judd Apatow (0:38)

I try to look at each project as if none of the other projects exist. Having succeeded the last time does not do anything for you this time.

Michael Gervais (0:46)

How empathy, vulnerability have shaped his creative process.

Judd Apatow (0:50)

Having people feel encouraged that I care about their ideas. So you work on the scene and you write the scene and you rehearse the scene, but then you don't want to hold it so tight that something else can't happen. And that's the moment that you never could have thought of in the writing.

Michael Gervais (1:04)

I want to encourage you to tune in to how Judd is really skilled at staying connected to his emotions, not being overrun by them.

Judd Apatow (1:11)

There's always like a dark, dark side to fighting for what you believe in and behaving in ways that you're not proud of. Sometimes in service to the work, sometimes in service to your ego and fear that it's going to get screwed up.

Michael Gervais (1:23)

Let's jump right into this fantastic conversation. Judd Apatow. Comedians scare me. Because I don't know where you're going to go.

Judd, this feels like a long time coming. Yes. I've watched your work from a distance for a long time, and like, holy moly, I am sitting with Judd right now. Okay? And when we, we've known each other for a while, nice lunch, good conversations, good kind of like banter back and forth, and like, I'm fascinated by a couple things. In the business world, and in the sport world too, but in the business world, attracting talent, building talent, retaining talent is a really important competitive advantage. Not only is it good for the business, but it is right for humans to say, look, I think there's something here in our business that is good fit for you, and we're going to pour in to help you be your very best. And in doing so, it's good for you, it's good for your teammates, it's good for the company, it's good for the service product, whatever. And I watch what you've done. You've had hit over hit after hit after hit, and it's like the Midas Touch. What you've done is you've found, retained, developed talent in a very unique way that nobody else I know in your industry has even come close to doing. So I do want to hit on that. But just like you would imagine, I want to go back to when you were younger.

Judd Apatow (3:04)

Okay.

Michael Gervais (3:06)

And can you tell the story about when you were in your early teens and you came across one of your heroes?

Judd Apatow (3:14)

Yeah. Well, I hope it doesn't bother Steve Martin just because he has to deal with people talking about it. But when I was a kid, maybe it was 77, 78, Steve Martin was on Saturday Night Live and he was Beyonce. It's hard to even describe the level of fame and love people had for Steve Martin at that time. They have it now. Still, we're in this giant Steve Martin Renaissance with his TV show. But back then, it really was white hot as a cultural phenomena. We all were talking like him in school.

In California, my grandma lived in Beverly Hills and I knew where he lived. It was this like solid cement block house. Didn't seem to have a lot of windows from the street. No gate. So whenever we went anywhere, I was probably 12 This is 1980 I would say, let's just drive past Steve Martin's house. So it literally didn't matter where we were going. Let's take a path that forces us to go past his house. Then one day, I'm in the car with my grandma and my brother. There he is in the front of the house. I don't remember if he was washing a car or he was just doing something in front of his house. So I grabbed a piece of paper. Me and my brother jumped out and I said, Mr. Martin, can I have your autograph? He said, no, I'm sorry. I don't sign autographs at my house. I said, well, will you sign it in the streets? Which I thought was a pretty good joke for 12 He's like, no, I really can't because then people will come all the time. So my house, a very reasonable reaction. Like if someone came to my house, I would call the cops.