John Legend Emmy, Grammy, Oscar and Tony winner on new music with Pharrell, staying true to himself, estranged relationship with Kanye West, bond with wife Chrissy Tiegen, overcoming loss in public, fatherhood and the cost of staying true to yourself

Ryan Clark (0:00)

John Legend believed he was the guy before anybody else did. That's how John Stevens actually became John Legend. And we know it's a nickname that was given to him by a colleague that stuck. Even though his people soon discover there was already a porn star by the name of Johnny Legend. And that's another story. 22 years ago, Get Lifted introduced John Legend to the world, but excellence isn't something he only achieved once. It's something he continued to chase every single day, and still does. This isn't just another story about some guy who loved music, though John Legend certainly does. It's a story of family struggle, forgiveness, and chance encounters that change your life. John opens up about losing and reconnecting with his mother, the church where he sang with someone who introduced him to Lauryn Hill, and the college roommate who just so happened to be related to Kanye West. Speaking of Kanye, the rise of good music deserves to be studied just as much as the forces that eventually drove a wedge between the two once close friends. At 15, John Legend wrote an essay and he made a vow to become a star and to use his platform to create change. The man that Kanye became eventually stood in direct opposition of that mission. But beyond the music, John is a husband and a father who openly loves his family and they share their lives with the world, even when that's not easy. Like in the case of when he and his wife Chrissy lost their son, Jack. With his new album, Muse, alongside Pharrell on the horizon, John Legend joins the boys on the pivot to reflect on his journey, his legacy, and why he still believes there's so much good music left to make. So, Pivot fam, it's about that time to pivot.

John Legend, welcome to The Pivot.

John Legend (2:05)

It's great to be here, finally. I've been a fan for a while. I love the show and I'm excited to be here with you guys.

Ryan Clark (2:12)

Man, I'm excited as well. This is Fred Taylor, this is Channing Crowder, I'm Ryan Clark, Pivot fam.

Thank you for pivoting with us. Listen, we're gonna get in to some deep questions as we near the release of Muse. But before that, I wanna share this.

John Legend (2:26)

Let's be shallow.

Ryan Clark (2:27)

Let's be shallow. Okay, you ready?

I know the only person, well, I met the only person today that doesn't like ordinary people.

John Legend (2:37)

Oh no.

Ryan Clark (2:38)

Channing Crowder.

Channing Crowder (2:40)

Unrealistic.

John Legend (2:41)

It's probably got a story to it, a relationship story.

Channing Crowder (2:45)

It's just the words. I make mistakes. But you do too.

But let's just take it easy. No, no, no, you ain't telling the woman she does too. You can't say, hey, I make mistakes.

John Legend (2:54)

I know I misbehaved and you've made your mistakes.

Channing Crowder (2:58)

Take it apart. Unrealistic.

John Legend (2:59)

We both still got room left to grow.

Channing Crowder (3:01)

We'll never get to the grow part of the podcast. We'll never get to the grow part if you say that to a woman.

John Legend (3:08)

And though love sometimes hurts, I still put you first and we'll make this thing work.

Channing Crowder (3:15)

But what if I'm getting hit with an iron cord?

John Legend (3:18)

After you said you make mistakes.

Fair enough. And then my other biggest hit, I said, all your perfect imperfections, which prompts the question, well, what are they?

Ryan Clark (3:30)

Yeah. That's what the woman would ask.

What do you think these imperfections are? Exactly.

John Legend (3:34)

And then you'd be like, actually, I was kidding. I was just kidding.

Channing Crowder (3:37)

Okay. So I thought you were purposely lying to yourself.

Ryan Clark (3:39)

What we're basically saying is if you put on the John Legend greatest hits to woo your woman, you might start a fight.

John Legend (3:47)

It just depends on the song. You know, my first album, Get Lifted, it had a few cheating songs. So number one, the first line is, you can't say, I don't love you just because I cheat on you because you don't see all I do to keep you from knowing the things I do, which that will start a fight for sure. Like, ordinary people would not start a fight anywhere nearly as bad as number one would.

And then She Don't Have To Know, which is also on Get Lifted, is like the most romantic cheating song you can make. It's like on the level of like Me and Mrs. Jones and you know, just those classic cheating songs. It just makes cheating sound so lovely and beautiful and dramatic, but I wouldn't advise you to do it. It's just nothing but trouble.