Joe Schmidt on teaching, relationships and communication

Conor O'Shea (0:12)

Hello, I'm Conor O'Shea. Welcome to another episode of the Eddie Jones Coaching Podcast. This week, Eddie and myself are chatting to a man we both faced on the touchline, and our close friends.

Joe Schmidt (0:22)

And I looked at my eight year old daughter at the time, and I just looked at her and shrugged my shoulders, and she said, Dad, he said he's the plumber, he's come to fix the toilet, he just needs to know where it is.

Conor O'Shea (0:33)

Yes, it's former Ireland and Leinster head coach Joe Schmidt join us to give an insight into the way he works. We talk about his rise from school teacher to beating the All Blacks, and Eddie and Joe recall what it's really like when they face each other. This is the Eddie Jones Coaching Podcast.

Joe, Eddie, welcome. Thank you, Joe, for for joining us on this. And we've been through through lockdown, you know, talking about our kind of experiences, everything rugby. And today, I think it's unbelievable privilege for me to be talking to arguably two of the greatest coaches the game has ever seen. And thank you for sharing and taking the time, Joe, for coming on board. But it's very much a chat. It's probably the worst TV interview you've ever done. So there'll be nothing controversial. There'll be nothing, nothing to target. It's just sharing experiences, really. Some of them anecdotes and stories, but also just giving some insight into some of the coaches that will be listening in to us. And I'm always fascinated. We've heard probably enough from myself and Eddie over the last number of weeks. But your whole coaching journey, which you've gone through a million times, you've written the book, you've talked about it. But just to share with maybe some of the people in the community game over in England, where it started, because down in Mullingar is at Wilson Hospital. How did the boy from New Zealand end up starting his coaching career in some ways in Ireland in a lowly club, Club Rugby?

Joe Schmidt (2:03)

Well, yeah. I mean, Mullingar probably wouldn't perceive themselves to be lowly.

Conor O'Shea (2:08)

I've got myself into trouble already, you see, first time.

Joe Schmidt (2:12)

Yeah, look, you'll get a few stones thrown from Westby.

Conor O'Shea (2:16)

A long way across the channel.

Joe Schmidt (2:18)

Yeah, yeah, you're safe until you come back. But I was a school teacher. I was playing first class rugby for a province called Manawatu at the time. And I did write about it, the principal at the time, when I first went in, I was also, I'd done the preseason with a National League basketball kind of set up. And when I was told I had to be involved in the co-curricular life of the school, I said, look, I love to coach basketball. And he said, that's perfect. Basketball's on Friday nights. It won't affect your rugby coaching on Saturday mornings. And so I was seconded to coach rugby straight away. I was a little bit scared to say, well, hang on, I didn't offer to do the rugby.

And so it meant the weeks were very busy, but I think there's a bit of crossover, no matter what you're coaching, whether it's basketball or rugby or whatever team sport, I think there's real crossover. And so I enjoyed doing both. It just meant that I was busy, that's all. And it kind of grew from there. Snapped my Achilles tendon a couple of times, end up taking the kind of first 15 or senior cup team. And we made a couple of national finals and end up being involved with New Zealand School Boys and then ended up being involved with Bay of Plenty, then the Blues Super Rugby and Clermont and Leinster and Ireland and retirement.

Conor O'Shea (3:49)

Retirement never. Who, when you look back at yourself as the coach that you became and you look back at those first steps, how did you coach a team? Was it with the same sort of intensity, direction? Where did you learn to get into the detail that you would later become when you started coaching professionally, so to speak, when you were looking at the Clermonts, the Leinsters? So what type of coach were you?

Joe Schmidt (4:16)

Yeah, you are a product of whatever you've been exposed to really, I think, Conor. So I had some really good coaches when I was playing and technically, Matt Donaldson was really good.

I had a guy called Garth Salene, who was such a top bloke, everyone would have died for him, you know? So trying to meld the technique with a person who's a leader and who promotes a really positive team environment. And then on top of that, New Zealand, I think, have some really good coach development opportunities. So being able to get along and do sessions with Wayne Smith involved or Frank Oliver involved or whoever. And even, you know, sports psychology with Dave Hadfield. When I first got started, it was like this massive opportunity to get some growth and take as many things on board and then, then kind of formulate a way of doing things. I was an English teacher, so I actually taught media studies in the school. So we had an editing suite. So I take the video in from the from the weekends game and I put the other video in and I put a few highlights on it or low lights as the case may be. And so I'd have three or four minutes of footage and, you know, I'd show them at interval to the boys and then set up our training for the week and we'd work like that. So that was a long time ago. That's before we used computers and cut games up and things like that. It was fairly rudimentary, but it helped give a direction. And I think as long as you make it fun and as long as players think they can enjoy making some progress, then it's enjoyable for most people.