Jennifer Doudna on what it takes to be a good scientist

Ira Flatow (0:02)

Hi, it's Ira, and you're listening to Science Friday.

Over the years, I've talked to thousands of researchers on this program, and while their findings, advances, and inventions are interesting and important, I'm also interested in a deeper personal question, and that is, what does it take to be a good scientist? Is it creativity, good ideas, diligence, luck, or all of the above? Then whom to ask? Well, in 2020, Dr. Jennifer Doudna shared the Nobel Prize in chemistry for the development of the gene editing technique CRISPR. CRISPR and related techniques have become essential tools in genetics. It's an advance that has changed the game in biology. Dr. Doudna has spoken or written about the challenges and rewards of science. So I wanted to get her take on my, what does it take to be a good scientist question, and the path she followed. Dr. Jennifer Doudna is a professor of biochemistry, biophysics and structural biology at the University of California, Berkeley, a 2020 Nobel Laureate in chemistry, and most recently recipient of the 2026 Priestley Medal, the American Chemical Society's highest honor. We couldn't connect right after the Nobel in 2020, she was just a bit busy.

So the Priestley Medal is as good an excuse as any to have her back. Dr. Doudna, welcome back to Science Friday and a belated congratulations.

Jennifer Doudna (1:32)

Well, hi, Ira, great to be back. Thanks for the congrats. I'm looking forward to the conversation.

Ira Flatow (1:37)

Great. Well, you know, in doing my research for this interview, I noticed that you get asked this question a lot. What is good science and how to do it? Why do you think you get asked this all the time?

Jennifer Doudna (1:50)

I think when you have science that is in the public eye the way CRISPR is, there's sort of a natural curiosity about how it came about, how the people behind the scenes were involved in the science as it was developing. I think it is a fascinating question. What does it take to do interesting science and how do we think about it now, especially in this era of AI and AI scientists?

Ira Flatow (2:17)

Yeah, I hope to get into this because I know you seem very eager and happy to talk about this all the time.

Jennifer Doudna (2:22)

So whether I want to or not, I will.

Ira Flatow (2:28)

Let me go right to the beginning. Do you remember the moment when you decided you wanted to be a scientist?

Jennifer Doudna (2:35)

Well, I sort of do. It really goes back to when I was in 10th grade in high school.

Yeah, because we were given a standard aptitude test that for me came back saying, well, the thing you're probably best at is being a civil engineer. I had no idea what that was.

But it was kind of the first, I guess, data point for me that suggested that there could be a scientific angle to my interests and that maybe that was something I could consider for my future career. And that made me start thinking about what areas of science I might find most exciting. And frankly, I got really interested in the question of chemistry underlying the evolution of life and understanding modern biology from a more chemical evolutionary perspective, if that makes sense. And so I went to college with that goal in mind, and I had no idea really what I wanted to work on. But I've been very fortunate that over the years, I've encountered a number of great mentors who have exposed me to different kinds of science. And I think through that process, I've really had the chance to observe some wonderful scientists up close. How they think about science, how do they pose a question, and then how do they go about addressing it? And I think each of us has our own personal approach to science, and yet, we absolutely benefit from observing what other people have done so successfully.

Ira Flatow (4:14)

Yeah, that was my next question, because when I talk to scientists, a lot of them say, you know, I had a mentor somewhere along the line who kept me going. And did you have anyone in particular? Because you didn't grow up in a family of scientists, did you?

Jennifer Doudna (4:28)

Didn't, no. Nobody in my family on either side was a scientist.

And it made me, you know, sort of have to break out a bit on my own. I was lucky that my father, who was a professor at the University of Hawaii, exposed me to science through his good friend and colleague, Don Hemis, who was a professor of biology at the university, now Emeritus, and Don gave me the opportunity to do some research in his lab when I was still in high school. So that was my first exposure to what it might be like to work in a real research lab, where there wasn't a cookbook set of experiments with a defined answer like you get in a lab course, but where you were literally asking and trying to answer a question that maybe nobody had ever answered before.