Jason Zweig – The Power of Serendipity

**Patrick O'Shaughnessy** (0:04)
Hello and welcome everyone. I'm Patrick O'Shaughnessy and this is Invest Like the Best. This show is an open-ended exploration of markets, ideas, methods, stories, and of strategies that will help you better invest both your time and your money. You can learn more and stay up to date at investorfieldguide.com.

**SPEAKER_1** (0:24)
Patrick O'Shaughnessy is a principal and portfolio manager at O'Shaughnessy Asset Management. All opinions expressed by Patrick and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Clients of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.

**Patrick O'Shaughnessy** (0:46)
My guest today is Jason Zweig, author of many great books including the recent Devil's Financial Dictionary which everyone should own. The way that Jason speaks in seemingly premeditated and perfect paragraphs makes me wonder if his writing even gets edited. Jason's insights and advice are the result of a life of critical thinking, reading, writing, humility and curiosity. We cover a lot but be sure to stay until the end. This conversation crescendos into an amazing finish that is more about life than just investing. For show notes, visit investorfieldguide.com forward slash Zweig, Z-W-E-I-G. And now, please enjoy my conversation with Jason Zweig.
So I'd actually love to start our conversation by continuing the conversation that you and I had last year which is the first time that we met in person at a CFA event. And I found what we tended towards was away from investing and towards books and actually family.
So the first question is a family question because it's near and dear to my heart. I've got two young kids, a two-year-old and a six-month-old. And what I'm finding is that it's very hard to instill lessons in them that he's sort of a master already of psychological warfare and manipulation, often bending me to his will not the other way around. So I'm curious, and we'll talk a lot about advice today, whether it's financial or otherwise, if there are lessons, things that you've instilled in your kids, that you think are most valuable, looking back on it now.

**Jason Zweig** (2:17)
Well, I think we'd be better off asking them that question.
It's a...
I'll be honest. You know, my wife and I made a decision when our kids were very young that I did not want to make money and financial decisions a large part of what we imparted to our kids. I think... Well, we have two daughters. They're both college age. And I think they would both tell you that they wish I had taught them more about money and finance when they were younger. They're learning it now, mostly for themselves, although they are consulting with me quite a bit. I mean, my friend, Jonathan Clements, who used to write the getting going column for the Wall Street Journal was adamant about indoctrinating his kids in sort of good spending habits and saving habits.
And from what I know, I think they really absorbed that. And I think that's great. I think people can overemphasize the importance of money with young kids to the point where it kind of becomes about the money. And that's what I really wanted to avoid. We have a rule in my house, which is my rule, although my wife likes it too, which is when I'm not working, I try not to think about money or the financial markets or any aspects of investing at all because that's pretty all consuming during the workday. So when I come home, it's time to knock it off and do something else. And that's what we did raising our kids. And I guess time will tell whether that was a good decision or not.

**Patrick O'Shaughnessy** (4:14)
So maybe I can twist a little bit more to try to get more out of you, which is, you said maybe it's better to ask them. So I'll just ask you, what have you found, I'm fascinated with people's daily habits, you know, things that, maybe not things you do every single day, but most days where you think that these habits add up to some sense of success over time.
I'm curious what the things are that you do, whether they were instilled by your parents or not, that you think are really important aspects of your daily life.

**Jason Zweig** (4:42)
Maybe let's back up one second, Patrick, and you know, I've been doing this for, I guess, 30 years now. And I think I can distill everything I've learned about the financial markets and investing into two basic principles. I think if you don't have these two tools in your toolkit, you cannot succeed. And so one of them is critical thinking and the other is self-control. So I try to exercise those two abilities whenever I can. So I read a lot of what I read, I read in physical form. I still read at least the Wall Street Journal in print, although I tend to read it online as well. And I print out a lot of stuff, even things I have as PDFs or that I get off websites. And I have this lifelong habit of reading with a red pen in my hand. I always carry a red pen, I have a red pen with me right now, as you can see, which I think I've done every day of my life since I was 12 or 13 years old. So when I read, I will circle things that I like and also circle things that make no sense to me. I'm a big believer in marginalia, I write in the margins. I talk back to what I'm reading and I think you have to do some of that every day. You might not have to do it on paper the way I do, but you certainly have to do it. And the other is self-control.