Italy seeks legislation to bring back anti-vax medics - why?

Ciara Kelly (0:00)

The Hard Shoulder, with Ciara Kelly and Shane Colman. On Newstalk, with Ciara.

Italy is facing a fresh controversy over doctors and health care professionals who were disciplined or removed from professional registers during the COVID-19 pandemic because of anti-vaccine activities and the promotion of unscientific medical claims. Parliament has now approved legislation allowing some of these professionals to seek reinstatement, although the measure still needs some Senate approval. And for more on this, I'm joined now by senior global reporter at The Daily Mail, Nick Pisa. Good evening to you, Nick. Tell us what's happening in Italy.

Nick Pisa (0:39)

Good evening, Ciara, to you and to your listeners. Yes, as you say here, yes, this was a legislation that went through the lower house of the Italian parliament last month. It was passed by literally a handful of votes. It went through 126 to 113

As you said in your introduction there, it was to reinstate those doctors, medical staff, nurses who were struck off during COVID. You may remember the COVID pandemic. Obviously, you can forget it. Basically, six years ago. Yes, well, in Italy, Italy was one of the first places to be struck quite badly by the COVID pandemic. And there were around 200,000 deaths and 27 million cases, according to the stats from the Institute for Health. But at the time, there was a lot of vaccine skepticism and several doctors and nurses refused to take that vaccine. And as a result, they were struck off and they weren't allowed to practice. But now the ruling Italian Prime Minister, Giorgio Maloney, from the Fratelli d'Italia party, the brothers of Italy party, has introduced this legislation to say that, yeah, these doctors should be allowed back in and these nursing staff should be allowed back in to practice back in the healthcare sphere. And as you said there in your introduction, it does go, though, to a senate where we're expecting it to face a bit of opposition, really, because opposition senators, actually those within that ruling centre-right coalition, are saying, well, hold on a minute, no, we're not happy with this. It was vaccines that save life. These doctors and nurses refused to take this vaccine. Why should they be allowed back in to that health care profession?

Ciara Kelly (2:18)

OK, so these aren't necessarily, I don't know the background of Italy, other than I remember the visuals of Sky News coming from Bergamo in northern Italy and those makeshift morgues, etc. So they were hit extremely hard in the Lombardy region, and we know that.

But is all that these doctors and nurses have done is that they themselves did not take the vaccine other than them actually campaigning against it or putting out gross misinformation or anything. They just decided for their own reasons that they wouldn't take it. Is that all that they have done more or less?

Nick Pisa (2:49)

Well, it's a little bit of both, to be honest with you, Ciara. Yes, they didn't take it. It also promoted controversial conspiracy theories about COVID and about the vaccine. I think what is also interesting with regard to this vaccine story is that in Italy, I'll be honest with you, I have relatives in Italy and a good few of them refused to take the vaccine because they were also sceptical of it.

But the fact is that in Italy, as I said, there is some scepticism towards vaccines in general. There's a lot of suspicion about vaccines and there was a survey out from the Lancet only recently that said that nearly one in two people are sceptical, especially of the COVID vaccine. There's actually been a drop in the flu vaccine this year as well with Italians saying that...

Ciara Kelly (3:39)

Vaccine fatigue is real in the wake of COVID, but I suppose some people might argue that was to do with overreach by public health authorities who did become quite authoritarian during the... By the way, my background, by the way, Nick, is I'm actually formerly a medical doctor, so I'm not coming from that anti-vax perception, but I also do think that there were lessons to be learned for how to bring a population with you.

Do we think it is likely that these doctors will return to practice? I'm sure they're probably needed if they are, you know, qualified health care professionals. Most health care services do struggle to recruit people.

Nick Pisa (4:12)

Well, yeah, no, absolutely. They will be returned. I mean, there was also the Italian president, Sergio Mattarella, has also stepped into the argument, and he said that these people should be allowed to return and to return to work. He says that also we shouldn't allow the public's mind to be poisoned by these anti-vax skeptics as well, because they're saying they are crucial to health care within the country. We should also remind listeners as well, Kerry, that back in August, a few months ago, and again, this is sadly a growing number, growing cases, a growing surge in Italy or growing rise in Italy, there was a case of a four year old boy in Palermo, in the Sicilian capital of Palermo, who died of diphtheria. And apparently it was because when the doctors investigated and they asked the parents that the child hadn't been vaccinated because they were sceptical of the diphtheria vaccine. And they said that by giving the child the vaccine, they might get autism as well. Obviously, there is no link between your doctor or previous doctor. Yeah.