Inside Pentridge Prison with Ray Mooney

**Meshel Laurie** (0:04)
This is Australian True Crime with Meshel Laurie.
For most of Ray Mooney's life, he has been a celebrated author, lecturer and playwright. In his early life, though, he was an inmate at the notorious Pentridge Prison. Inside, he became a spokesperson for prisoner rights and became close to some of Australia's most notorious career criminals, including Christopher Dale Flannery, aka Mr. Rent-a-Kill. Ray found himself inside Pentridge because he was convicted of rape when he was 19 years old, a fact of his life that he never shies away from. And he's since lectured to young students about the importance of understanding consent. Ray joins us to discuss this period of his life and his experiences inside the College of Knowledge, Pentridge Prison. This is Australian True Crime. We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created, the Wurundjeri Woi-Wurrung people of the Kulin Nation. And a warning. This episode of the podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence.
There's not many blokes who, even if they've changed their way of thinking about sexuality and about what constitutes rape, would own up to it and want to talk to people about it. I've never known anyone else who's wanted to do that.

**Ray Mooney** (1:19)
Well, it's the worst crime you can ever admit to, and that's why everyone claims they're innocent.
I did the same thing when I was caught. I claimed I was innocent, tried every trick in the book to get out of it, and I was guilty of rape in 1967, served seven and a half years for it, and deserved every day. But I looked at it properly and tried to understand myself, my own background, my antecedents, to see if there were any things other than the fact that I just made terrible decisions in the moment. That we're responsible, and it's easy to justify your own situation. But the truth, the real truth was, no, I made bad decisions in the moment. No matter what situations existed as antecedents, they were never ever justifiable to try and diminish my own responsibility, and I came to terms with that.

**Meshel Laurie** (2:15)
Yeah, it's hard because I want to justify it because I like you so much. You're such a lovely fella and such a smart, you know, self-aware, generous person and I enjoy your company. And then I think, how can I come to terms with it? I mean, how did you, looking back now, what didn't you understand? What was your mind, what was going on in your mind when you committed this offense?

**Ray Mooney** (2:40)
Look, just back on what you said, you don't have to come to terms with it. There is no need to come to terms with it.
You can't, you can't justify what I did.

**Meshel Laurie** (2:50)
No, but part of me feels like I should shun you forever, or we should shun a rapist forever. Like, I can't accept, I don't want to be near them. Like, you know, and then I suppose this happens in lots of circumstances, and you meet somebody and you realize, or you feel like, oh, but not him, not Ray. Ray's different to that.
You know, once you meet someone and get to know them a bit, it's harder to just categorize people black and white.

**Ray Mooney** (3:15)
Sure. I think it comes down to whether or not you're prepared to accept that people can change.

**Meshel Laurie** (3:21)
Yeah.

**Ray Mooney** (3:22)
Now, from my point of view, it's obvious people can change. I grew up barracking for one football team. I no longer barrack for that football team. I barrack for another football team.
There's so many areas in which I have changed, completely changed, seriously.

**Meshel Laurie** (3:38)
No, I'm Buddhist, so I believe we're changing every second.

**Ray Mooney** (3:41)
Then you'd be better, you're in a better state of sort of coming to terms with the fact that accepting that people can change. Once you accept that, then it's easier to say what you're saying. But there's a lot of people who don't accept that, and therefore, you're never ever going to convince them. And I accept I can't convince them, and it doesn't worry me that I can't convince them. Doesn't worry me one little bit, that people have got the right to be like that. If people have the ability to acknowledge their faults and their problems, and where they are wrong, then you can put them in a situation where it's worth assessing what they're now saying is valid.
Because rape was such a bad crime, always will be, any sexual assault is such a bad crime. Everyone wants to avoid it. Everyone refuses to, or very few people acknowledge it. Even when they're guilty, and it's so obvious that they're guilty, they still find it hard to acknowledge. Because we tag them so hard with that, it's on your phone for the rest of your life, so to speak. It is the mark of Cain, and you do carry it for ever and ever.