In Pursuit of the Ultimate Chocolate Cake, with Helen Goh

David Tamarkin (0:00)

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Okay, now let's get Jessica in here and start the episode.

Is the idea that people are going to put the cake in the cask and you're going to be buried with all these cakes?

Jessica Battilana (0:53)

From King Arthur Baking Company, this is Things Bakers Know. I'm Jessica Battilana, employee owner at King Arthur Baking.

David Tamarkin (1:00)

And I'm David Tamarkin, employee owner at King Arthur Baking. And today, we're back. We're back. With another season.

Jessica Battilana (1:07)

I was going to say season 3, but it's in fact season 4

David Tamarkin (1:10)

Who knows anymore?

Jessica Battilana (1:11)

Like Sam's Through the Hourglass.

David Tamarkin (1:13)

And we're talking about a very special baked good, chocolate cake.

Jessica Battilana (1:23)

I'm glad that we're starting the season with chocolate cake because I feel like finally we have something that I can talk about with both passion and authority. You know, that's not always the case.

David Tamarkin (1:32)

You aren't expert in this.

Jessica Battilana (1:34)

I mean, I like to fancy myself an expert. I guess maybe I'm an expert enthusiast.

David Tamarkin (1:37)

No, I think you're an actual expert. I mean, you have a chocolate cake recipe that you develop, that you are in love with, that you stand behind.

Jessica Battilana (1:44)

Well, I guess I am an expert. And here's why. Last summer, I got a call from my friend Tamar Adler. So Tamar is a cookbook author.

David Tamarkin (1:52)

Name drop, OK.

Jessica Battilana (1:53)

Name drop. She also writes a cooking column or food column for Vogue. And she was writing an article for Vogue about chocolate cake. Because she had been spending some time in Spain. She, I know, that sounds great.

And she went past some bakery that had a sign in the window that said, World's Best Chocolate Cake. So of course, she goes in to get this World's Best Chocolate Cake.

David Tamarkin (2:19)

This is a very common claim, by the way.

Jessica Battilana (2:21)

I think it is.

David Tamarkin (2:21)

Everybody thinks that their chocolate cake is the World's Best.

Jessica Battilana (2:25)

Yeah. So this baker in Madrid has a sign. I'm already angry.

And she gets the cake and she's describing the cake to me. And she said it was layers of chocolate meringue, sandwiched with like a chocolate cream. And then the whole thing is covered in ganache. And I said, that sounds delicious. And it also does not sound like a chocolate cake.

David Tamarkin (2:43)

Agree.

Jessica Battilana (2:43)

I was like, it is a cake that is chocolate-ish. But that led Tamar and I to sort of go down the rabbit hole. And that was sort of like the point of this article was like, what is the World's Best Chocolate Cake?

David Tamarkin (2:56)

Or what even is chocolate cake?

Jessica Battilana (2:59)

What is life even?

David Tamarkin (3:01)

Extension to what is life?

Jessica Battilana (3:03)

And I told her, when I think about chocolate cake, I don't picture anything like the chocolate cake that she is describing from this bakery in Madrid. I think of like a two or four layer, flush, crumbed cake.

Cake cake.

David Tamarkin (3:17)

You skip over the three layer?

Jessica Battilana (3:18)

Yeah, three. Three is fine. Never three. Two to four. With lots of frosting.

David Tamarkin (3:22)

Okay.

Jessica Battilana (3:23)

You know, like a chocolate birthday cake is what I think of as a chocolate cake.

David Tamarkin (3:26)

Yeah.

Jessica Battilana (3:27)

And that is my ideal chocolate cake. And I did publish a recipe for that style of chocolate cake in my cookbook repertoire.

I didn't call it World's Best because, you know, humility. Yankee humility.

David Tamarkin (3:39)

If it's anything you're known for, it's humility.

Jessica Battilana (3:42)

Wow.

David Tamarkin (3:43)

I don't know.

Jessica Battilana (3:45)

So it is a creamed butter cake.

David Tamarkin (3:47)

I think, I believe in that same chapter in your book, you're like, I don't know, I wasn't going to include chocolate chip cookies, but I decided mine are the best. So here's another chocolate chip cookie recipe.