In Chains: Slaves and Angels
Data Over Dogma
April 6, 2026
This week, we're really into bondage, but not in a fun way. First, we're talking about Hagar, the enslaved handmaiden of Sarai (and later of Sarah). Being enslaved is never a good thing, despite what some apologists might have you believe, but Hagar is done pretty dirty in a few ways.
Speakers Dan McClellan, Dan Beecher
TopicsSociety & CultureHistory
Dan McClellan (0:00)
You know, I think it's really true that a good night's sleep is really the foundation for everything. Your mood, your stamina, your brain power. It's really after a good night's sleep that I am the most prepared to tackle my day, whatever that entails. And after a long day, I need a bed that actually helps me recharge, and that's why I really enjoy my Brooklyn Bedding Plank Firm Lux. It's a California king, by the way. I feel like I need to clarify that. And I sleep hot, so I really appreciate the Glaciotex covers that they use on their mattresses that keep me from overheating. I wake up feeling aligned, rested. I don't crawl out of bed with an achy back anymore. That is a thing of the past, and I'm ready to jump into my day. It's not just a comfortable mattress. It is intentionally built for restorative sleep, and I really appreciate that about Brooklyn Bedding.
Dan Beecher (0:56)
Yeah, that glaciotext that you were talking about is literally copper-infused foam and temperature-regulating materials that keep you cool at night. So that's nice, but that's not the only feature we're talking about here, because the thing is Brooklyn Bedding knows that sleep is not a one-size-fits-all situation. You've got the Firm mattress. I went with a more luxurious sort of pillow top. I feel like I'm sleeping on a cloud. I got the Sedona Elite, but they offer mattresses for every body, every sleep style, even in hard-to-find sizes, as you like to brag about your California king. But here's the kicker. Brooklyn Bedding also offers a 120-night comfort trial. You love it, or they'll help you return it or swap it hassle-free.
Dan McClellan (1:45)
Go to brooklynbedding.com and use our promo code Dogma at checkout to get 30% off site-wide. This offer is not available anywhere else. That's brooklynbedding.com and promo code Dogma for 30% off site-wide. Support our show and let them know we sent you after checkout as well. That's brooklynbedding.com, promo code Dogma.
SPEAKER_3 (2:09)
Protein is now at Starbucks, and it's never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or matcha. Try it today at Starbucks.
Dan McClellan (2:26)
And then it goes through and talks about all the things that the different angels taught them. Hermione taught sorcery for the loosing of spells and magic and skill. Hopefully everybody was like, Hermione's teaching spells. Hey, everybody, I'm Dan McClellan.
Dan Beecher (2:46)
And I'm Dan Beecher.
Dan McClellan (2:48)
And this is Data Over Dogma, where we increase public access to the academic study of the Bible and religion, and we combat the spread of misinformation about the same. How are things today, Dan?
Dan Beecher (2:58)
You know, it's springtime, the blossoms are out in Salt Lake City, and it's lovely, and...
Dan McClellan (3:06)
Those pear trees, man.
Dan Beecher (3:08)
Oh, well, look, certain pear trees are fine, and then there's the... It's not the Bradford pear tree, which gives you no fruit, but does have a certain smell about it, and I am not a fan of that smell.
Dan McClellan (3:24)
Nobody is. Flies are evidently fans of that smell.
Dan Beecher (3:29)
But yes, other than that, you know, I went for a walk recently at the Utah State Capitol, which is surrounded by...
Dan McClellan (3:38)
You got cherry blossoms.
Dan Beecher (3:39)
Cherry blossoms. They're only there for a few days, and then they're gone, so you gotta hit them just right.
Dan McClellan (3:44)
You gotta get them while they're hot.
Dan Beecher (3:46)
Yeah, exactly. So that was... By the time you hear this, they're gone. Forget about it. Don't try. It's too late. It's too late. Anyway, I'm looking forward to today's show. We have some fun coming up. We're gonna start with a Who's That? And that's gonna be Hagar, and she is one... It's an interesting story.
I have many questions for you today.
Dan McClellan (4:10)
Okay.
Dan Beecher (4:10)
And then, speaking of questions, we're getting into some really interesting stuff. We're gonna talk about chaining up some angels.
Dan McClellan (4:20)
Yes. This is something that comes up every now and then. Anytime there's a drought in Iraq and the Euphrates River level gets low, you start to hear about these chained up angels.
Dan Beecher (4:33)
But also, like, they came up recently. I was on threads and I had posted something dumb that I post, I like to poke the bear over on threads. And then somebody, like, came at me with a whole bunch of, like, well, chained up angels. And I was like, chained up angels. I remember about that. But what are we even talking about here?
54 more minutes of transcript below
Thousands of transcripts fetched by people building searchable podcast archives
Fetch the whole transcript
The demo key returns a sample episode in full, no card needed:
curl -H "x-api-key: pt_demo" \
https://spoken.md/transcripts/1000651996090Markdown with the speakers named, for your notes, your knowledge base, or anything that makes HTTP calls.
From $0.10 per transcript. No subscription. Credits never expire. Prices exclude VAT, added at checkout for EU customers. Not what you expected? Email us within 14 days with 20 or fewer credits used and we refund the pack in full.
Using your own key:
curl -H "x-api-key: YOUR_KEY" \
https://spoken.md/transcripts/1000759508411