Howard Lutnick: How America Can Hit 6% GDP Growth in 2026

**Chamath Palihapitiya** (0:00)
What was the feeling the first time you were on Air Force One?

**Howard Lutnick** (0:03)
It's just-

**Chamath Palihapitiya** (0:04)
Or Marine One? Is there a special thing where you're just like, what is going on?

**Howard Lutnick** (0:08)
Yeah.

**Chamath Palihapitiya** (0:09)
Yeah.

**Howard Lutnick** (0:09)
When you're on these things, it's amazing. You are where real conversations happen. We went to see Putin. So I get on Air Force One at 5 a.m. He gets on at 5 45
We fly to Alaska. Alaska, right.

**Chamath Palihapitiya** (0:32)
Okay? Right.

**Howard Lutnick** (0:33)
So we're talking about, then we were there for four hours with Putin, and then we fly back. Now Marco Rubio and Steve Wittkopf go take a nap because we have to wait for Zelensky to wake up. It's called Zelensky and we have to wait for the European leaders to wake up. I guess it's the middle of the night. So I stay up with the president and we're just chatting, like we're just chatting, watching golf. I mean, we just, like it's a lot of hours. So then Zelensky wakes up. So they get on the phone with Zelensky and he talks to Zelensky on his phone. And then when he calls the European leaders, when they get up, they want to have a only secure call. So there's three secure handsets in his office.
So he's on one, Rubio's on one, and Witkoff's on one. And I'm just sitting on the couch.

**Chamath Palihapitiya** (1:24)
This is in Air Force One?

**Howard Lutnick** (1:25)
In Air Force One, in his office. So I'm just sitting on the couch. And I've been up for like 20 hours, okay?
And the president's been up for 20 hours, but he's on the phone and the European leaders are talking. So I'm just sitting there and they're all on handsets. So I can't hear a word that anybody's saying. And I'm just sitting there. So I fall asleep, okay? So I'm just sitting there, they're talking on the phone, like right there, and I fall asleep like this. So I'm like that. So Witkoff elbows the president, right? Points to me. And then he, the president unrolls a tootsie roll. And he's like this. He tries to throw a kid into my mouth. Yeah, he hits me in the face. I'm like, I wake up, he goes, he goes, Howard, while you're napping, we're trying to settle world peace.

**Chamath Palihapitiya** (2:14)
That's awesome.
Well, welcome everybody to the AllIn interview. I'd like to welcome Secretary Howard Lutnick, our esteemed Secretary of Commerce. When we did the first interview with you, it was at the beginning of the administration, it was almost a year ago. And to be honest, it turned out to be one of the most popular things we've ever done. There's the Elon Musk view factor, but then there was the Howard Lutnick view factor, and they were pretty much side by side actually. It's great that you gave us a chance a year later to come back and talk to you. Let's just start with the general look back for you. How has the year gone? And specifically, I would love to understand what surprised you as a businessman walking into the government. Let's just start with that.

**Howard Lutnick** (3:08)
So, overall, you know, I have a goal, which is I want to be the cabinet secretary who has the most fun, right? And so, I set out with that goal. And which means I am outcome driven.
I don't really buy into I worked really hard at something and it failed. If I worked really hard and it failed, it's a fail.

**Chamath Palihapitiya** (3:35)
It's a fail.

**Howard Lutnick** (3:36)
Right? If I got lucky and it just all fell into place and I did nothing, it's still success, right? Because the outcomes are what matter.

**Chamath Palihapitiya** (3:43)
Right.

**Howard Lutnick** (3:43)
You know, you're not telling people how hard you worked and failed.

**Chamath Palihapitiya** (3:45)
Right.

**Howard Lutnick** (3:47)
So how you get things done in government is fascinating. It's just different. What happened is most people who've ever been in government tend to be incremental. They come in, they say, how did this work? So someone explains how they work and they try to move the ball 10% forward. They don't really rethink it entirely.
And so my objective was to come into this department, which is an awesome, incredible, diverse department, and really think through its powers and its possibilities, reimagine them, rethink them, hire people, and then mold those people to think outside the box. And so the first three months was really getting people to think, can I really challenge this? Can I really do this? Can I really try to do this? And then trying to convince everybody around me that this is an okay way to do it. The way it was done yesterday isn't right. It was just what they did yesterday. You're not even saying it's wrong. You're just saying it's not you.