How to Unlock the Power of Emotional Intelligence | Dr. Marc Brackett on the Permission to Feel

Marc Brackett (0:00)

The world's chaos is worsening, which depresses me. I've just come to the conclusion that whether it be in a school or a family or in a workplace, it's really our moral obligation to take how people feel seriously.

Michael Gervais (0:25)

Okay, welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by Trade in Training, a high-performance psychologist, and I am excited to take a deep dive with Dr. Marc Brackett on the applied science of emotions.

Marc is the founding director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence and a professor in the Child Study Center at Yale University. His research focuses on the role of emotional intelligence in learning, decision-making, creativity, relationships, health, and performance.

Marc developed a systemic evidence-based approach to social and emotional learning, which has been adopted by over 4,000 schools across the United States and in 27 other countries. That is epic. And outside of the school setting, Marc regularly consults with world-leading corporations on integrating emotional intelligence principles into leadership teams and employee training programs to help boost retention, innovation, and of course, ROI.

Marc, I am super excited to sit with you.

Marc Brackett (1:31)

Thank you.

Michael Gervais (1:32)

So, like as a lead-off batter, how are you?

And I really mean that. How are you?

Marc Brackett (1:38)

Well, I have to correct you on that one. It's how are you feeling?

Michael Gervais (1:43)

You got to get intimate.

Marc Brackett (1:47)

Very good.

Michael Gervais (1:47)

Well, let's be more specific, right? Like how are you feeling right now?

Marc Brackett (1:51)

Yeah. Well, think about it though, before we jump in. Like, how are you fine, right? That's what we typically say, right?

How am I feeling, to be honest with you, rushed, overwhelmed, excited, lots of different feelings. How about you?

Michael Gervais (2:09)

For me, I want to appreciate the kind of preciseness of your question. For me, I have, at the beginning of this conversation, most, there's an eagerness.

And then there's a little bit of buzz for me because, like, I don't know where we're going to go.

And I feel like I get to be a student, you know, like sitting with somebody who really has understood emotions and how they work. So it's mostly eagerness and a bit of, I don't know, I don't know how it's going to go. And that's, to me, that's usually exciting. Sometimes it's saying anxiety provoking, but right now it's exciting. Oh, so one of the reasons, you know, I am excited, to be honest, because emotions and feelings, they're at the center of being human, at the center of performance and, you know, wellbeing. And it's pretty clear to me and you and your research that many of us, if not most of us, we deeply struggle with this part of the human experience. And I was thinking maybe we could start with your provocative title, Permission to Feel.

Marc Brackett (3:14)

Yeah, so, you know, it's interesting. When I was working on my book, which is obviously called Permission to Feel, I was lucky to get a really good agent and I got a top publisher. And both the agent and the publisher, you know, were like, I don't know about this title. You know, like, I'm not sure, you know, I can envision, you know, an executive walking through the airport, picking up a book called Permission to Feel. Like, you know, it's a little vulnerable. And to be honest, a little feminine, you know, with some of the words they use to describe the title. And I said, keep going, keep going, keep going. What don't you like about it? And they went on and on. I said, now you know the reason why I'm calling it. Because like, unless we can disrupt, you know, the mindset around feelings, we're never going to get anywhere. And, you know, I still feel that way. Three years, you know, after I met with my agent and publisher and I wrote my book, because I think we're in a society that is really afraid of feelings.

And I think the pandemic taught us that even more so than ever before. So Permission to Feel and just the title came from my own personal experiences, kind of two experiences, really. One is I hated my childhood. I had a really unsafe childhood, you know, as you know, because you've read my book, you know, I was abused as a kid. I had two parents who loved me dearly, but in the spirit of like our new relationship, my mother had just terrible anxiety and was always having a nervous breakdown. And my father was a stereotypical tough guy from the Bronx, who, you know, son, you gotta toughen up, you gotta toughen up, son. And I'll just say, you know, when you have a mom who's having a breakdown every day and a father who's telling you to toughen up, you don't just come home after being bullied or abused and say, can I talk to you about my feelings? You know, what do you do? You eat your feelings, you suppress your feelings, you act out your feelings.