How to scrappily hire for, measure, and unlock growth | Crystal Widjaja, Gojek and Kumu

**Crystal Widjaja** (0:00)
I felt like it was a problem that was very solvable, and we ended up renting a stadium to just hire 60,000 drivers in a couple of weeks. So I think looking back, it was certainly a risk. When I got there, it was in a house, and I realized I've probably made a huge mistake.
But we were growing very quickly already, even at that small scale of 4,000 orders per day.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:29)
Crystal Widjaja has been leading product and growth teams at some of the largest consumer businesses in Southeast Asia, including Kumu, where she's currently the chief product officer, and Gojek, where she built and led the growth team through the early years of what is now the largest super app in Southeast Asia. To put this in context, Gojek completes more rides per day than Lyft, and more food deliveries than Grubhub, Uber Eats and DoorDash combined. And it's the number one mobile wallet in Indonesia and Southeast Asia. In my opinion, American startups have a lot to learn from startups in Asia, and Crystal has been at the ground floor of some of the biggest successes there. In our conversation, we covered the biggest growth unlocks that Crystal has seen across the companies she's worked at, what growth investments usually pay off and which often don't, we dig into growth models, a bunch of pro tips for accelerating growth, why most analytics efforts fail and how to avoid that, how to hire and structure your growth team, and we also talk about the nonprofit that Crystal started that aims to help young women get into STEM called Generation Girl.
Crystal is such a star, and I hope that you enjoy this episode as much as I did. And with that, I bring you Crystal Widjaja.
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Hey Ashley, Head of Marketing at Flatfile. How many B2B SaaS companies would you estimate need to import CSV files from their customers?

**Ashley** (2:38)
At least 40%.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (2:40)
And how many of them screw that up, and what happens when they do?

**Ashley** (2:43)
Well, based on our data, about a third of people will consider switching to another company after just one bad experience during onboarding. So if your CSV importer doesn't work right, which is super common considering customer files are chock full of unexpected data and formatting, they'll leave.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (3:02)
I am 0% surprised to hear that. I've consistently seen that improving onboarding is one of the highest leverage opportunities for both sign-up conversion and increasing long-term retention.
Getting people to your aha moment more quickly and reliably is so incredibly important.

**Ashley** (3:18)
It's incredible to see how our customers like Square, Spotify and Zura are able to grow their businesses on top of Flatfile. This is because flawless data onboarding acts like a catalyst to get them and their customers where they need to go faster.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (3:34)
If you'd like to learn more or get started, check out Flatfile at flatfile.com/lenny.
Crystal, thank you so much for being here. I've read a bunch of your stuff online. We've exchanged a bunch of emails and tweets, but this is the first time that we're actually chatting for real. And so I'm really excited to, yeah, I'm excited to learn from you and for folks to learn about you.

**Crystal Widjaja** (3:56)
We may have like cross paths on Clubhouse and the audio forums or on the Twitterverse. So it's really cool to see.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (4:04)
Wow. I just remember that. That is so right. I think we were talking about Reforge and Epo, is that right?

**Crystal Widjaja** (4:09)
Yes, that's right. Good times.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (4:11)
Oh my God. Clubhouse days.

**Crystal Widjaja** (4:13)
The days when Clubhouse was a thing. They have a thing to learn about exponential decay.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (4:18)
Oh man. Okay. Maybe we'll get to that. And we're gonna be chatting a lot about consumer growth and a bunch of stuff along those lines.
But before you get into that, you have a fairly unusual path and also geography as compared to many of my other guests.