How To Have The Hardest Conversations Of Your Life - Jefferson Fisher - #1093

**Chris Williamson** (0:00)
Why do you think people are struggling with their communication?

**Jefferson Fisher** (0:02)
Because it's something that wasn't taught to them. It was only modeled, and a lot of people didn't have good models.
They had people in their lives that saw conflict as something that they had to have in order to feel close to each other. They saw how yelling was the only way to possibly stop something, or maybe get physical was the only way to prove a point. So there's a lot of people who haven't had communication modeled well in their life, there's a lot of books you can read, and there's a lot of things you can do, but not until you've actually done it can you ever start actually proving in it.

**Chris Williamson** (0:36)
It's like that Mike Tyson quote, everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the face.

**Jefferson Fisher** (0:39)
Until they get popped in the mouth.

**Chris Williamson** (0:40)
Yeah. Lots of people fear conflict, but in communication especially.
Why is it so scary? Why is conflict so hard to navigate?

**Jefferson Fisher** (0:50)
It takes courage.
People feel like yelling and being aggressive, that's strength. It's not.
Being somebody who can handle conflict calmly and know that you're going to get through it and there's going to be an end to it, that takes a lot of courage. I think a lot of people are afraid of that vulnerability. That's a word that men in particular find that that's something that is some kind of no-go zone, when actually that's the one thing they probably most need. Some people, instead of just a shouting match, they really just need a hug. And so, it's this unknown for a lot of people. And how do you not say the wrong thing? And so, there's that fear, and fear often is masked in forms of anger. So, it's a lot easier to get defensive and yell than it is to actually lean across and work through something hard.

**Chris Williamson** (1:45)
Why do you think people lose control so quickly in conversations?

**Jefferson Fisher** (1:50)
Because it takes no effort.
It takes zero effort to yell and get defensive and raise your voice. There's no struggle in that. It takes a whole lot more strength to be able to take a breath, slow things down, say things more calmly.
And so, it's just an easier path. That neuro pathway is a lot easier. And it's just something that's organic in our bodies. It's part of the fight or flight. Every time you hear a disagreement or something that's a different opinion that you don't like, we naturally, our whole body goes, no, I don't think I like that. That doesn't sound good to me. That conflicts with something I believe. That conflicts with something I grew up knowing because my dad believed this, my mom believed this. And all of a sudden, that's why facts and evidence typically don't matter when it comes to changing somebody's mind. It has a lot to do with how you've communicated in a way, how you've made them feel about it.

**Chris Williamson** (2:45)
I've always thought that facts don't care about the feelings line could not be more backward. Yeah.
Feelings don't give a single shit about the facts.

**Jefferson Fisher** (2:53)
Yeah, they don't care about the facts.

**Chris Williamson** (2:56)
What is happening in your body when you get triggered?

**Jefferson Fisher** (3:00)
It's the same thing of physical danger. Our bodies don't do well at deciphering between a social danger, meaning are they confronting me, offending me, coming into my space, is my autonomy being questioned, is my authority being questioned from a physical danger. So it's the same thing. Your pupils dilate to take more light, meaning it's kind of like that portrait mode on Apple to where everything kind of goes fuzzy in the background, your fist clinch, your jaw clenches. That's why a lot of the times you start yelling and people go, why are you yelling? I'm not yelling. It's because your breath has nowhere else to go, right? It's because you've been holding your breath because you're ready. Your body doesn't know, is there a bear behind the bush? It's like the same. If I were to text you, I said, if I texted Chris and I said, we need to talk, period.
First thing he goes, what do I do? What's wrong? What happened?
It's that anxiety, it's that fear.

**Chris Williamson** (3:54)
Have you seen some reels floating around of people saying, amazing ways to connect with your partner and it's all stuff like that.

**Jefferson Fisher** (4:01)
Yeah.

**Chris Williamson** (4:01)
We need to talk. Exactly. What did you do? Right. All of these weird open loops. When I think about it, I think a lot of it is the openness.