How to Find the Extraordinary in the Ordinary: Why Meaning Comes From Within with Henry Shukman #689

Henry Shukman (0:01)

By the pursuit of what we think is best, we're missing all the beauty right here, with humble, humble little things. We think, I want some great awakening.

But really, we need so little to be really deeply happy and at peace.

Rangan Chatterjee (0:19)

Hey guys, how are you doing? Hope you're having a good week so far. My name is Dr Rangan Chatterjee, and this is my podcast, Feel Better, Live More.

What happens when the boundary between you and the world around you dissolves? Well, that's something I myself experienced recently. And in this week's conversation, we explore what those experiences can reveal about who we really are. Henry Shukman is a Zen master, author, poet, and co-founder of the Way Meditation app. As many of you know, I have been using the Way app for a long time now. And a few months back, I also became an investor because I very much support their mission to get more people meditating, as I passionately believe this will lead to a more compassionate world. Now, this is Henry's third appearance on my podcast, but this conversation goes somewhere we've never been before. We explore how meditation can lead to something beyond increased calm and focus. It can give you a direct encounter with the sense that we're not separate from the world around us. This is something I myself experienced recently. And during this conversation, Henry helps me make sense of that experience. And in doing so, opens up a conversation about awakening or non-duality, finding meaning from within, and how surrendering the need to achieve allows your heart to open. Of course, not everyone seeks truth through meditation. And if you're happy to just practice in order to feel calmer and a sense of peace, then Henry assures us that's entirely valid as well. Towards the end of this conversation, there is a really practical section where I put some of your most asked questions about meditation to him, including how to build a consistent practice, how meditation can help with addiction, and how to carry increased awareness from meditation into the rest of your life. This is a beautiful conversation that moves effortlessly between the practical and the profound. And I think it will probably mean something different depending on where you are in your own life.

One of my own biggest insights over the past few months has been to really recognize how much power there is in cultivating an open heart, not just for our own peace of mind, but also because this will ripple out into our relationships, our communities, and ultimately the wider world.

Many people these days, Henry, feel lost and lacking in purpose.

How do you see meditation as a practice that can help people find meaning?

Henry Shukman (3:30)

Yeah, that's a great question.

Here's my initial take on that. It's like the first thing we try to do with meaning is try to find it out in the world. It's out there somewhere. And actually, I don't know that that's the right place to look for it. I think it's within. And meditation is lots of things and people understand it in lots of different ways. But fundamentally, it's always coming back to what's already here within us. I think the deepest meaning of our lives is within. And when we when we connect with that, we also see it out in the world. It's like it comes from within. We find it within and it reorients how we then live our outward lives.

So that I think that's the first thing to be still with ourselves, to come home to ourselves.

Rangan Chatterjee (4:30)

You're saying that many of us look outside for meaning, outside for purpose. I guess many people have bought the myth that happiness also exists on the outside. I mean, these are just terms, right?

For some of us, they could be interchangeable, meaning, purpose, happiness. But I think the truth within all of them is that they're really not found on the outside. They're all, I guess to me, games that are played on the inside.

Henry Shukman (5:03)

Yes, I think that's right.

I've heard someone say, or I think it's a common saying, maybe it's like, happiness is an inside job. You know, I think it's really true. There's a, I remember there was a time that the Dalai Lama came to visit Santa Fe.

I'd actually, I happened not to be there at the time, but it was actually after I moved there, some 30 odd years ago. And he was fascinated by skiing, you know, he'd never done it and he wanted to see what it was like. And there's a ski mountain half an hour outside Santa Fe and he went up there. And after, I mean, he didn't actually get put on a pair of skis, but he was just watching people doing it. And afterwards he went in, he wanted to go into the cafeteria, have a hot drink. And he was sitting there and one of the servers, you know, working in the cafeteria, she so nervously came up to him and asked him, you know, your aunt, what do they call you, your holiness.