How to build the next wave of clean energy | Jennifer Granholm, Ryan Panchadsaram

Jennifer Granholm (0:00)

We are competing against nations that have full-on industrial strategy, and if we don't, it is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Elise Hu (0:11)

You're listening to TED Talks Daily, where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day. I'm your host, Elise Hu.

Jennifer Granholm has spent much of her career focused on how America builds things.

As Michigan's governor, from 2003 to 2011, she guided the state through the near collapse of the auto industry. And as the US Secretary of Energy under President Biden from 2021 to 2025, she oversaw a massive wave of federal investment in clean energy. But since then, much of the policy she helped put in place has been reversed, with tax credits for electric vehicles eliminated, and support for wind and solar cut short, just to name a few. All as the climate crisis grows more urgent. How do we move forward?

Jennifer Granholm (0:57)

So the first revolution of clean energy was about innovation and invention and technology. The second revolution is going to be about construction and building, and that I'm very excited for.

Elise Hu (1:09)

In this conversation with engineer and climate investor Ryan Panchadsaram, Jennifer talks about what it'll take for the US to compete globally on clean energy and manufacturing. She argues that winning isn't just about beating other countries.

Jennifer Granholm (1:24)

Winning means that we're manufacturing in the United States, and we are allied with partners across the world who also do not want to have a single source of supply that they are relying on. Communities that have been left behind have to be a part of prosperity.

Elise Hu (1:40)

She also shares what she thinks tech companies will have to do if they want to earn the support of communities where they're building data centers. What the history of nuclear weapons teaches us about keeping AI safe and the story of one small Michigan town that still shapes everything she does. It's coming up right after a short break.

And now our TED Conversation of the Day.

Ryan Panchadsaram (2:09)

You fought for the auto industry. Secretary of Energy, you led the largest investment of clean energy in our history.

You know how to build.

Jennifer Granholm (2:19)

It's all about, as we would say, deploy, deploy, deploy, same kind of thing. Yes.

Ryan Panchadsaram (2:23)

On climate and energy, could you paint what the road looks like we're on now and what we could go to?

Jennifer Granholm (2:31)

Okay, so first of all, everybody, do not be totally bummed.

I mean, this is a moment, I mean, right? Because we, there's a little hiccup right now, but, and we pulled out of the Paris Agreement, but in January of 2029, we're back in. This is a small hiccup. And even with the withdrawal of support for wind and solar, stuff is happening. You all are building out there. When we left the Biden administration at the end of 2024, we thought we had just blown away the amount of clean energy that we added to the grid. We added 25 Hoover dams worth, 50 gigawatts worth of clean power to the US electric grid. The Energy Information Administration this year is projecting that 70 gigawatts of clean power is going to be added to the US grid. So it is happening despite what's going on. And of course, as you know, those of you who are doing this, there is still tax credits out there for geothermal, for batteries, for hydroelectric, you name it, all of our favorites, obviously for nuclear. So stuff is happening. All I'm saying is that we are in this moment, and the private sector is leading us right now.

We will get back to a place where we have public-private partnerships in renewable energy as well. So the first revolution of clean energy was about innovation and invention and technology. The second revolution is going to be about construction and building. And that I'm very excited for.

Ryan Panchadsaram (4:09)

That's so exciting. Tell us about IRA, the lessons. What advice do you have for this next?

Jennifer Granholm (4:14)

Okay, first of all, I'm really happy that we are in a moment where this country actually understands for a moment that we need some kind of industrial strategy.

And the Inflation Reduction Act was that. We are competing against nations that have full-on industrial strategy. And if we don't, it is like bringing a knife to a gunfight. So the ability for the Inflation Reduction Act to be able to provide both supply side and demand side strategies to create a whole ecosystem for clean technologies was amazing. And that, I think, we're going to see an IRA 2.0, Inflation Reduction Act 2.0. It might be a little bit different and some of the lessons we'll learn.