How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford GSB professor, “Touchy Feely”)

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:00)
Many people told you, your class at Stanford made them feel like their entire college tuition was worth it.

**Carole Robin** (0:05)
Even more rewarding for me are the, I'm pretty sure your class just saved my marriage.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:10)
I want to talk about how to give feedback well.

**Carole Robin** (0:12)
I feel that you don't care, and I feel you're being insensitive are not feelings. And that's where we make our biggest mistakes when it comes to feedback.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:19)
How do you avoid people getting defensive?

**Carole Robin** (0:21)
Questions that start with what, when, where, how, stay away from why.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:25)
I think it might be helpful to talk about this concept that you call the three realities.

**Carole Robin** (0:28)
We don't understand that we are only privy to two out of the three. So I know what's going on for me and I know what I did. I have no idea what happened on your end.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:37)
That's a really profound point that anger is a secondary emotion. Really, what's going on is you're afraid or you're hurt.

**Carole Robin** (0:43)
What a disservice to not help people understand that anger is a distancing emotion. And there are other emotions that are connecting.

**Lenny Rachitsky** (0:54)
Today, my guest is Carole Robin. For over 20 years, Carole taught the legendary course at Stanford's Graduate School of Business, nicknamed Touchy Feely, technically called Interpersonal Dynamics, which helps people learn how to build strong relationships and become much more effective leaders. She then went on to start a nonprofit called Leaders in Tech, which brings these same lessons to leaders of high-tech growth companies. And she also wrote an incredibly impactful book called Connect, which distills all of the key insights and lessons from her decades running this course. I've had so many friends go through the Stanford course or the Leaders in Tech program, and every single one of them was transformed in terms of how they relate to other people, how they communicate, and how they lead. In my conversation with Carole, we talk about why we're often trapped in mental models that we formed when we were younger and how they now limit us and limit our potential and our ways of seeing the world, why disclosing 15% more than you naturally feel comfortable will make you a more effective leader, why there are actually three realities around us at all times, and how that insight changes the way you relate to people. We also get into how to give feedback to anyone about anything, why vulnerability is so essential to great leadership, how to build exceptional relationships and why they are so important, and so much more. This is a very special and very unique episode, and I am so excited to bring it to you. With that, I bring you Carole Robin, after a short word from our sponsors. And if you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to subscribe and follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube. It's the best way to avoid missing future episodes, and it helps the podcast tremendously.
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