How to Build (and Repair) Love: The Gottmans on What Every Couple Should Know

Michael Gervais (0:00)

Finding Mastery is brought to you by Defender. In the conversations I have with world class performers, there's this theme that keeps coming up again and again. How we choose to move through the world shapes the quality of our lives. That's about mindset, the environments that we seek out, the way that we use our tools, and the way that we prepare ourselves for what's next. And for me, that's what stands out about Defender. Defender is one of my favorite cars on the road. It is engineered for capability. Built to take on the unknown, the off-road, those edge-of-what's-possible kind of days. With advanced terrain response systems and all-wheel drive and configurable off-road modes, it is designed to adapt to wherever your path leads, even if that path hasn't been paved yet. At the same time, one of the things that I love is that Defender offers refined details, intuitive tech, and a quiet, comfortable cabin, supporting you whether you're navigating challenging conditions or simply heading out for the day with family and friends. The Defender lineup includes the Defender 90, 110, and 130, with room for up to eight passengers and the versatility to match nearly any adventure or ambition that you have. You can explore the full lineup and build yours at landroverusa.com. Again, that's landroverusa.com. The most powerful way to enter the new year is not with resolutions. Rather a deeper understanding of how to connect with people who matter the most to you. Welcome back, or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast, where we dive into the minds of the world's greatest thinkers and doers. I am your host, Dr. Michael Gervais, by trade and training a high-performance psychologist. The idea behind these conversations is simple. It's to sit with the extraordinaries and to learn. To really learn how they work from the inside out. This is not about hacks or shortcuts. It's about what they're searching for, how they organize their inner life, and the skills that they have used to shape their craft and themselves. As we close out the year, the Finding Mastery team is taking time to rest and recalibrate and reflect. Basically, we're using the same principles that we talk about on the podcast. We're practicing those. So today, we're sharing a conversation from the Finding Mastery Vault with two legends in the science of relationships, doctors John and Julie Gottman. In this episode, we explore the habits that strengthen love, the patterns that quietly erode it, and the small daily commitments that create trust, closeness and lasting partnerships. It's a meaningful way to reflect on the year behind us and to set intention for the one ahead. So from the entire Finding Mastery team, we wish you and your loved ones a very happy, healthy new year. So with that, let's jump into this week's conversation with the Gottmans.

Oh, I can't believe I'm sitting down with the Gottmans. And I just want to say thank you for the contribution you've made to the field and to my professional and personal life as well. And you've been in this for over 50 years and studying the science of love. Just as a general idea, what is still fascinating you about this science and particularly about the science of love?

Julie Gottman (3:33)

You know, I think what is fascinating me, Mike, is how to treat couples who have complicated lives, couples who may be seriously depressed or one partner may be struggling with an addiction. I have a lot of couples who are coming in, particularly after the pandemic, and so distressed, so unhappy, they may have lost their direction. They're not sure what's going to give their life meaning and whether or not they really belong with this current partner. And many times they don't have the tools to forge a bridge between them, particularly since they were crushed together during the pandemic and are just looking for space at this point. So it's challenging and particularly challenging as a result of what's outside their relationship as well as what's inside.

John Gottman (4:40)

Yeah, I would have to agree with Julie that we did a study with 40,000 couples about about to start therapy, an international study with same-sex, then and cross-sex couples, all kinds of couples. And Julie's right, over 60 percent of the time, couples had these additional problems, these comorbidities that went along with unhappiness in the relationship. They were struggling with addiction, violence, depression, all kinds of other things that really impinged on the relationship. And treating couples with all of those problems, by the time they start therapy, is a real challenge.

Michael Gervais (5:26)

Yeah, it's one of the more complicated, in my mind, it's one of the more complicated parts of the science, you know, the psychological science is about relationships. And there's, you know, I'd love your take on why you think it's so complicated or why I sense that it's so complicated. Maybe you value the complexity as well. And do you have a bright line about why this part of the science is so complicated for so many of us?