How To Break Free From Perfectionism | Thomas Curran

Thomas Curran (0:00)

You can have high standards and strive and be happy and healthy and live a very contented life and be successful.

It doesn't have to come with insecurity and doubt. Only perfectionism grafts those two together.

Michael Gervais (0:20)

Okay, welcome back or welcome to the Finding Mastery podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Michael Gervais. By trade in trading, a high-performance psychologist. I'm really excited to welcome Thomas Curran to the podcast for this week's conversation. Okay, have you ever felt the overwhelming pressure to be perfect in this imperfect world that we're in? Of course you have. And so there's this underlying drive for some of us to excel in every aspect of life, from work to relationships to your craft, to how you show up in social media, to how you engage in social settings, even with your family. Like this need for perfectionism is pervasive. And Thomas has dedicated his career to understanding the complex and often elusive personality trait of perfectionism.

So he's a professor of psychology at the London School of Economics, and Thomas's research delves deep into the roots of perfectionism, exploring how it is developed and its profound impact on overall mental health.

He had a very influential TED Talk on perfectionism. It garnered over three million views, and his research has reached the pages of esteemed publications like Harvard Business Review, New Scientist, it's been featured on CNN, and a testament to the urgency of this topic in today's society for so many of us. He's also the author of The Perfection Trap.

This is a must read. This is for anyone who's seeking a deeper dive into the psychology of perfectionism, who knows the pains of it, is looking for freedom from it, of a more authentic life, a deeper way of living. It's a nice, easy read. Evidence-based, research-backed. I think you're going to love it. So in our conversation, Thomas and I explore the depths, the costs of perfectionism. We unravel what it is and what it means and why it's on the rise in our society and the hidden cost it exacts on our well-being and most importantly, how we can work with this pervasive force to find a healthier path to growth and fulfillment and purpose and meaning. And so, let's embrace our imperfections. It sounds so easy. So, maybe I'll just highlight one of them. My nose is as crooked as a nose can be. So, I'm not trying to hide that from anyone. And so, I think it's just a fun way, if there's so much freedom to say, hey, look, I'm not perfect. None of us are. Get over it. I think that you're going to love this conversation. There's some real tools in it. So, let's jump right into the conversation with Thomas Curran.

Thomas, I'm so happy to have this conversation with you and congrats on your work to date.

It's a pleasure to meet you.

Thomas Curran (3:05)

It's a pleasure to be here. I'm looking forward to our conversation.

Michael Gervais (3:09)

Okay, good. So, this word perfectionism, it's thrown around all over the place, especially in the world of high performance.

And that's really what this podcast is about, helping people be their best. What is your working definition of perfectionism?

Thomas Curran (3:25)

Okay, so perfectionism, you're absolutely right, is all around us. You hear it all the time. It's the quintessential answer to that difficult interview question. What's your favorite weakness? I'm a bit of a perfectionist. This is what we think is a socially desirable weakness, you know, the one we're so much better for having.

But my perspective on perfectionism perhaps is not quite the same as most people's. I am a researcher in the area, I've done a lot of work looking at perfectionism and talking to perfectionistic people. And what I see time and time again is a very defensive way of thinking, rooted in deficit, a sense that I'm not enough or I'm not perfect enough and that everything I do really in the world is to try to demonstrate to other people that I'm okay, that I'm worth something, that I matter. And the way that I can guarantee that I gain approval and validation is by being perfect. So perfectionism is a deficit, a way of deficit thinking, I think. Rooted really in shame about the imperfect person that we are and trying to emulate some idealistic idea that we hold in our minds about the perfect person we think that other people want to see.

And so if we can start there with our understanding of perfectionism from a point of deficit, then you can begin to unpack really why perhaps it's not as positive as we think it is.