How Has Forensic Science Transformed Criminal Justice? With Sue Black

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**Mia Sorenti** (1:23)
Welcome to Intelligence Squared, where great minds meet. I'm senior producer Mia Sorenti. Forensic science has transformed the way crimes are investigated and justice is delivered. From fingerprints and DNA to new forms of anatomical identification, its breakthroughs have helped solve cases once thought impossible. Yet when evidence is misunderstood, or experts overreach, the consequences can be devastating.
In this episode, doctor and broadcaster, Dr. Radha Modgil, speaks with Professor Lady Sue Black about her 40-year career as one of the world's leading forensic anthropologists. Together, they discuss how certain forensic science can be, what happens when scientific evidence changes after a conviction, and how can juries be expected to understand complex findings.
Let's join Dr. Radha Modgil now with more.

**Radha Modgil** (2:14)
Hello and welcome to Intelligence Squared with me, Dr. Radha Modgil. Our guest today is Professor Lady Sue Black. She's one of the world's leading anatomists and forensic anthropologists. She's the president of Johns College in Oxford and was Professor of Anatomy and Forensic Anthropology at the University of Dundee. She was also the lead anthropologist for the British forensic team in the war crimes investigations in Kosovo and one of the first forensic scientists to travel to Thailand following the Indian Ocean tsunami. She's also the author of the critically-claimed and award-winning Sunday Times bestsellers, All That Remains and Written in Bone. And now she joins us to discuss her new book, An Expert Witness.
Sue, it is an absolute pleasure for you to be joining us today. Thank you so much.

**Sue Black** (3:02)
Oh, the pleasure is mine. And thank you so much for that very generous introduction. So I'm very grateful to you.

**Radha Modgil** (3:08)
It's all true.

**SPEAKER_2** (3:09)
Well, some of it might be.

**Radha Modgil** (3:12)
So you've had 40 years' experience analysing...

**Sue Black** (3:15)
Oh, why don't you tell everyone just how really old I am.

**SPEAKER_7** (3:19)
Over 40 years.

**Radha Modgil** (3:21)
Over 40 years' experience analysing criminal case evidence.
So tell us, what has it been like acting as an expert witness over that period? But crucially as well, I'm also really fascinated. Why did you get into this area? Why were you interested in this in the first place?

**Sue Black** (3:37)
So, I'm a great believer in fate, and I don't think in my life I've ever made a conscious decision as to where my life is going to go. I'm very good at seizing an opportunity and then running with it, but I don't seek it out. It was Steve Jobs who said, at one point, it's one of the wonderful things about getting older, is that you have that time to stop, to turn around and look behind you at the path you've taken.
And when you come to a crossroads, you might not know why you made that decision at the time, but with hindsight, you can now see the pattern and the pathway. And I can go right back to when I was a little girl. I was daddy's girl. I loved my mother. My mother was a gorgeous woman, but I just worshiped my father. And anywhere he went, I tagged along like his little shadow.