How Does A Non-Monogamous Marriage Work? - Caleb Jones - #082

**Chris Williamson** (0:00)
Hi friends, welcome back to the Modern Wisdom Podcast. My guest today is Caleb Jones. He is an online coach, a blogger, and a prominent figure in the non-monogamy scene. Now, statistically, most marriages will end in divorce. It's a sad fact, but unfortunately one that's true. And this has caused many people to seek an alternative setup for their relationships. Hilariously, I'm actually away in Barcelona at a wedding at the moment, so I apologize to Andy and Jess. This isn't a comment on how I think the future of your relationship is going to go, but Caleb is a superbly interesting guy, and this particular topic is nothing short of fascinating. I was, I wouldn't say triggered, but it brought up a lot of very visceral emotions, thinking about allowing someone that you love to sleep with somebody else. And the discussion we have is quite nuanced. I'm really interested to hear what other people think, because I found it challenging to talk about it and think about it in a very unique way. So I'm going to stop chatting shit, and I'll let you listen to Caleb take it away. But yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts at ChriswellX on all social media, but for now, please welcome Caleb Jones.
I'm joined by Caleb Jones, all the way from the other side of the Atlantic. How are you today?

**Caleb Jones** (1:43)
I'm good, how are you?

**Chris Williamson** (1:44)
Very good, man, very good. Very glad to have you on. Lots of interesting stuff for us to speak about. You have got the largest tankard that you're drinking out of, that I've ever seen. What is that?

**Caleb Jones** (1:55)
You know, I drink a lot of water, and so I would have these little cups by my desk, and was there ever big enough, so I was like, I gotta get a fucking, you know, I gotta get a tankard, I gotta get something real.

**Chris Williamson** (2:02)
What does that, that's like a what, liter and a half? Or you guys would call it like a gallon again?

**Caleb Jones** (2:06)
Yeah, probably a liter and a half, yeah, yeah, something like that. Just water. It'd be cool if it was vodka, but it's not.

**Chris Williamson** (2:11)
Yeah, or like some mead. It's a big game of Thrones, isn't it?

**Caleb Jones** (2:15)
I don't drink, I've never been drunk in my entire life, so it just makes me look cool when I drink my water, I guess.

**Chris Williamson** (2:19)
That's an interesting lifestyle choice. Why did you choose to do that?

**Caleb Jones** (2:23)
You know, I don't have an answer for that question. I wish I had an answer, I wish I had some kind of cool story, like, well, my parents were alcoholics. No, my parents were normal.
Here's my guess, so when I was in seventh grade, seventh grade, so I was about 12, I took one of the cans of beer out of my dad's refrigerator. I took it outside the house and took a little coffee cup and I filled it up and I promised myself I'd drink the whole beer, because I want to get drunk, because that looks like a lot of fun. And I went, oh, oh, oh, and I made myself drink the whole beer. I went, oh, this is terrible. I can't wait until I get drunk. I kept drinking and drinking, and then nothing happened. I just felt dizzy for a few minutes. And I think maybe that was it. Maybe, I'm guessing. I'm also an INTJ for Myers-Briggs, those Myers-Briggs personality types.

**Chris Williamson** (3:10)
Okay, yep.

**Caleb Jones** (3:11)
So I'm an INTJ and I'm an extreme INTJ. So my little dot is in the far upper corner, and the INTJ is in the far upper corner of the 16 personality types. So not only am I an INTJ, I'm an extreme version of an INTJ. And so one of the aspects of most INTJs, not all of them, is that I'm a control freak over myself, but I don't want to control anybody else. So I'm thinking that sub, this isn't conscious. It would be subconsciously, I don't want to lose control of myself by getting drunk.

**Chris Williamson** (3:39)
I understand. I think it is.

**Caleb Jones** (3:40)
I don't know. That's a guess. I really don't know.

**Chris Williamson** (3:42)
That's the same for my mom.

**Caleb Jones** (3:43)
I'm going to have to do it at some point. People are like, you got to get drunk once. All right, I'll get drunk once.

**Chris Williamson** (3:47)
That's fine. It's a, so I'm nine months into 18 months sober, right? I'm a club promoter by trade. So I've run nightclubs for 12 years, and that's been.