How Do We Keep Young People Out of the Justice System?

Meshel Laurie (0:03)

This is Australian True Crime with Meshel Laurie. Abraham Kuol spent the first seven years of his life in Kakuma Refugee Camp in Kenya before his family moved to Australia as refugees, a journey that would ultimately lead him to become a youth mentor, criminology researcher and community leader. Now Victoria's Young Australian of the Year for 2026, Abraham joins us to talk about youth crime, early intervention and what we can do to keep vulnerable young people out of the justice system.

This is Australian True Crime. We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created, the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin Nation.

Abraham Kuol (0:46)

Kakuma is like a refugee camp in the northern western part of Kenya. It's been around since like the 80s. My family didn't arrive there till the 90s, then I was born like in the late 90s.

Meshel Laurie (0:57)

So where were your family from if they ended up in that camp?

Abraham Kuol (1:00)

My family was from South Sudan, but like to Sudan at the time, now Sudan has gained its, or South Sudan has gained its own independence. So a lot of people were displaced in like neighboring countries like Uganda, Ethiopia, Kenya.

Meshel Laurie (1:13)

I know. I went to the big refugee camp in South Sudan, Bentu, and the problem for those people, of course, is they're not actually refugees, right? They're displaced persons, so they can't apply for refugee status anywhere else in the world.

Abraham Kuol (1:28)

They can't.

Meshel Laurie (1:28)

So you want to get out of the country and be a refugee in one of these other places, right? Because then you considered a refugee.

Abraham Kuol (1:35)

Yeah, because it's hard to be displaced in your own country. Most people assume that you should have opportunities if you're living within your own country.

Meshel Laurie (1:42)

Yeah.

Abraham Kuol (1:42)

But for some reason, it might be that one tribe may be in power at the moment. And there's things that still happen back in South Sudan, where you're from a different ethnic tribe, may not get the same, I guess, support and treatment as another ethnic tribe. A lot of conflict and tribalism that still goes on.

Meshel Laurie (2:01)

Yeah. And a bit of wacky stuff in the government as well.

Abraham Kuol (2:04)

Yeah. A lot.

Meshel Laurie (2:06)

Yeah. I wouldn't mind going back there, so I won't elaborate on that. I'll just leave it at that.

Abraham Kuol (2:11)

So weird though, because it's like a really, really like, yes, there's no true peace, but it's a different way of living.

Meshel Laurie (2:17)

Yeah.

Abraham Kuol (2:18)

Like people are very connected.

People are communal. They have deep relationships with each other. Like even with my own experience, my family's experience, when we ended up in Kenya, like my parents still talk about it now, they genuinely believe that we're going to go back to Sudan. Just usually-

Meshel Laurie (2:36)

People want to stay home.

Abraham Kuol (2:37)

Yeah, they do. Like my parents and most refugee and migrant parents still have a deep attachment to their country of origin. Even now, like I get the sense that sometimes, like my parents have been here in Australia for a long time, but they're here so they could provide us with an opportunity. Most of their relationships are back in South Sudan and Kenya. Most of the people that they know, most of the people that they grew up with.

Sometimes we forget, especially for the parents, how isolating it can be for them.

When you tune into that as a young kid, you start to be a little bit more grateful because I'm not having to give up that much, and I'm the one getting all the opportunity. I guess now I get to study here in one of the best countries in the world, and I get to live a really lovely and meaningful life. But then sometimes I look at my parents' experience and how much I've had to sacrifice. It makes me want to make sure I make it count. I can look at my mom and my dad and yes, they're not formally educated, but I've learned so much from them. I think I could learn that from anyone else, and I think if given the same opportunity, just imagine what they'd be able to do.

Meshel Laurie (3:39)

Well, the refugee camp experience isn't comfortable for anybody, no matter there are better places around the world and harsher environments around the world in that context, but it's not easy for anybody to live in a camp like that, constantly wondering where to go next, where can we go next, applying for things, isn't it? Everything's up in the air.