How Common Are Miscarriages of Justice in Australia?

Meshel Laurie (0:03)

This is Australian True Crime with Meshel Laurie, and in today's episode, we're asking, how common do you think miscarriages of justice are in Australia? Professor Stephen Cordner has been at the forefront of forensic medicine for decades. His expert evidence has been relied upon around the world, from domestic courtrooms to international human rights tribunals. He's had a front row seat to some of Australia's most controversial cases, from Lindy Chamberlain to Kathleen Folbigg. And alarmingly, he believes we have a significant and largely unmeasured problem with miscarriages of justice.

Dr. Cordner has written a book called Wrongful Convictions in Australia, and he joins us to talk about it.

This is Australian True Crime. We acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is created, the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin Nation. And a warning, this episode of the podcast contains graphic descriptions of violence.

Stephen Cordner (1:05)

I don't think we're pointing out errors and mistakes in the judiciary. I think we are saying that the system, the criminal justice system, which I have had a wonderful professional life working within, which has treated me very well. I have been a believer and supporter in the criminal justice system. I don't think the criminal justice system should be thrown out. Okay.

But like most systems, it got room for improvement. The healthcare system has had a revolution in the last 30 years, because it shifted from doctor knows best to evidence-based medicine. And so it wasn't simply doing something because the doctor said so. You can now say to the doctor, why is that your advice? And the doctor should be able to say, because there's evidence A, B, and C. And that approach to individual cases has moved into the system.

So that you might even remember two years ago, headline of the age, 167 deaths in hospitals from medical errors. Okay? 167, quite a big number. But forget the number, somebody's counting, somebody's looking, somebody is wanting to know where the weak points are in the healthcare system, so something can be done about it. And there's a whole infrastructure designed for that purpose across the country. Now, it's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than it was 30 years ago. No question, going to hospital has been well demonstrated, is a much safer experience today than it was 10 years ago, than that was 10 years before that, and that was 10 years before that. So things have actually been getting significantly better.

Now, there isn't a comparable approach to preventable things in the criminal justice system. And so that's really at the base of why we thought, you know, a couple of doctors might have something to say, broadly speaking, to the justice system, as well as some more specific things related to the experience that we've had over our professional journeys.

Meshel Laurie (4:01)

And your experience in this area is unique and it is extraordinary really. I mean, we'll talk about the fact that the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine, you were the inaugural, what was the actual title? Director. Director of that.

I always say inventor, but that's probably inaccurate.

Stephen Cordner (4:17)

No, no, no, no, definitely not the inventor. There were people before that who, you know, Professor Ploucan and the government really.

Meshel Laurie (4:27)

Well, the energy behind it though was really created, wasn't it? By Dr. Ploucan and by other people who worked on the Lindy Chamberlain case. The Lindy Chamberlain case was a catalyst for changes around Australia and specifically for Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine, FIFM.

Stephen Cordner (4:43)

And also a catalyst for changes in the coroner system.

And Victoria became the first state in the country which had a statewide coroner's system, as opposed to magistrates at Stall or magistrates at Hamilton being the local coroner. There became one coroner for the state.

Meshel Laurie (5:08)

And the facilities are excellent and they chase excellence all the time, I mean, it's one of the most serious forensic medicine institutions in the world, I would say.

Stephen Cordner (5:17)

Well, yeah, I mean, we're biased, of course, but it does well with all of the advantages that it's got, because it has got a lot of advantages. It is well supported.

Meshel Laurie (5:29)

Yeah.

You have also been in the center of some other very controversial cases. I mean, I don't think they get much more controversial since Lindy Chamberlain than the Kathleen Folbigg case. Now, tell us, a lot of people will realize, oh, yes, I remember this lovely man from the documentary from the Australian story or whatever that they saw. How did you get involved with Kathleen Folbigg's case?