Hour 2: Fred Katz

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This is The Michael Kay Show Podcast.

**Michael Kay** (0:34)
I gotta get more Kay.

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Listen live weekdays at 1 on the Espn New York app and your smart speaker.

**Rob** (0:42)
Next stop, the Canyon of Heroes.

**George** (0:45)
The New York Knicks are NBA champions.

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Espn New York's live coverage of the New York Knicks World Championship celebration is brought to you by Amazon Hub Delivery, Michelob Ultra, Slow Men's, ZipRecruiter, Nissan, Calandres Bakery, Thrive Well Infusion, Paris Men Furn, Horizon and New Era.

**Michael Kay** (1:09)
Back to the show, Espn New York's live coverage of the World Championship celebration brought to you by Slow Men's. The Knicks brought home the trophy. Slow Men's brings home the comfort, celebrate like a champion with zero down and zero stress. So the parade is over. The ceremony at City Hall is over. And now we actually can think ahead. I used to always laugh when the Yankees won.
Right after the parade, George Steinberg would go back to Yankee Stadium and go, what are we going to do about next year? He was never content with sitting on that one year. And the Knicks want to be the one team over the last eight years that actually repeats. But James Dolan made it very clear yesterday in an interview that there would be no going into the second apron. I know it's complicated. I know it's a lot of wonky stuff.
But let's bring in a guy that could make sense of that. And that is the NBA writer for The Athletic, a good friend of the show. And that's Fred Katz. Fred, thanks for joining us. How are you doing?

**Fred Katz** (2:02)
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on.

**Michael Kay** (2:04)
Now, I know you were watching the parade because I saw that the media was given awful, awful seats behind the stage with a view of nothing. So from your comfort of your TV, what did you think of the parade?

**Fred Katz** (2:17)
The comfort of my TV, it was lovely. I really enjoyed Jalen Brunson's speech. I'll tell you that. I thought it was a great lesson and a perfect way for Jalen Brunson to talk his stuff without actually talking his stuff. It was a great celebratory moment for a very, very, very, very tortured fan base that I think deserves it.

**Michael Kay** (2:42)
They showed out for sure. They showed the Knicks a lot of love. But in an interview yesterday, James Dolan said that we will not be going to the second apron. It's professional suicide to do that. I'll write any check, but I'm not going into the second apron. So Fred, what does that mean? What does that mean for the future of Mitchell Robinson as a Knick?

**Fred Katz** (3:02)
So it's not just Mitchell Robinson. It's really the other free agents are coming up too. So it's Mitchell Robinson's contract is up, Landry Shamans' contract is up, Jordan Clarkson's contract is up, and Mo Diawara's contract is up. And think of the second apron as a specific payroll threshold that's well above the luxury tax. And the reason why it's such a deterrent in the NBA, why so few teams ever want to go into it, there was only one team over the second apron this year. It was the Cleveland Cavaliers. And the reason why so few teams want to go into it is it's not just the amount of tax dollars you have to pay once you get there. It's also that once you pass that payroll threshold, you start losing all of these resources in terms of roster building. So all of a sudden, if you're above that payroll threshold, which for next year is estimated to be around $222 million, you're not allowed to make most types of trades anymore. You're not allowed to make most types of pre-agency signings anymore. You're not allowed to basically renovate your roster at all. And the Knicks could go into the second apron. And if they brought back all their guys, they almost certainly would go into the second apron. They're really, really close on it.
What does it mean for the future of Mitchell Robinson? It might mean that Mitchell Robinson ends up taking another offer somewhere else.