He Died 11 Years Ago. Their Relationship Never Ended. | Lucy Kalanithi

Lucy Kalanithi (0:00)

And then I feel like now we're 11 years out from losing him, and it's like, I've fallen in love again, and so many things are different, and Katie's getting older, and the pain of losing him is much less than it was. At the beginning, the love is exactly the same. He's our family, I'm so proud of him. All the love is just as strong.

SPEAKER_2 (0:22)

Welcome to the Midlife Chrysalis Podcast with Chip Conley, where we explore how midlife isn't a crisis, but a chrysalis, a time of profound transformation that can lead to the most meaningful chapter of your life.

Chip Conley (0:38)

Welcome to the Midlife Chrysalis. This is Chip Conley. My guest today is such a delicious delight.

She is Dr. Lucy Kalanithi, whose husband Paul wrote a book When Breath Becomes Air. And because he passed away before the book was finished, he finished the book for him. It is probably my favorite book ever written on death and dying. And I think it's partly because you have two doctors who are married, and having a child during the time he's dying. So there's an element of the medical element to it, but there's like moving beyond the medical to the emotional element, and the spiritual element, and the uncertainty of a diagnosis. And I relate so much to it because of my own stage three metastatic prostate cancer diagnosis. So I think you can enjoy this, whether you're dealing with a diagnosis in your family or with yourself, because we all have uncertainty in life, and some of it's mortal uncertainty, but for some it's a job or it's a romance that's gone wrong, or it's whether you should move to a new location. So this episode is dedicated to all of you who are in the midst of uncertainty. At the end, I will tell you my three key lessons.

Lucy, welcome to The Midlife Chrysalis.

Lucy Kalanithi (2:08)

Thanks for having me.

Chip Conley (2:09)

Yeah. I see you have the flag in the background there.

You grew up, if I'm not mistaken, in Europe early. Is that true?

Lucy Kalanithi (2:18)

Yeah, partly. I was born in France. My dad's English and my mom's like a US Air Force brat.

I was born in France, then we moved to Alabama, then we moved back to England, and then we moved to Michigan when I was in second grade. I feel like I'm from Michigan.

Chip Conley (2:38)

You have a twin sister who's a well-known entrepreneur or she got a blog.

Lucy Kalanithi (2:45)

Yeah. Entrepreneur is right. But yeah, essentially she started a blog, but when blogs were just beginning, but then essentially now it's like an online magazine. She's like a staff and it's called Cup of Joe and it's really deep and fun at the same time.

Chip Conley (3:06)

That's our goal here too.

Lucy Kalanithi (3:08)

Totally.

Chip Conley (3:09)

In 2014, I read an article, a guest essay in the New York Times entitled, How Long Have I Got Left? That your husband Paul wrote.

Lucy Kalanithi (3:21)

That's our guy.

Chip Conley (3:22)

That's our guy.

It came out two years before the book you jointly wrote, When Breath Becomes Air. He wrote it, but you wrote the end of that book, which is maybe one of the most seminal books ever written in modern times around the process of dying. I have metastatic prostate cancer that has spread to my lymph system, and I've just finished teaching here at the Modern Elder Academy, MEA, our Santa Fe campus, with Dr. Karen Lerman, who runs the USC Cancer Center, our second workshop on the psychology of cancer, and 24 of us together just learning from each other. To give that as context, let's dive in. I just want to ask you, how has your relationship with Paul changed since his passing?

Lucy Kalanithi (4:19)

Oh, cool question.

Yeah, it's interesting you say that because I do feel like you remain in relationship. Like after someone dies, it's so interesting. Yeah, like CS. Lewis, this is so interesting. CS. Lewis said about like losing his spouse, bereavement is not the truncation of love at one of its regular phases, like the honeymoon too. Isn't that interesting?

Chip Conley (4:41)

Yeah.

Lucy Kalanithi (4:42)

Yeah, it's funny. Katie and I just moved. So Katie, my daughter, our daughter was eight months old when Paul died.

Chip Conley (4:49)

Yeah.

Lucy Kalanithi (4:50)

Now she's in seventh grade and we just moved. Then I was like setting up these bookshelves behind me.

Chip Conley (4:55)

This is your home, right?

Lucy Kalanithi (4:56)

Yeah.

Chip Conley (4:57)

Are you in Palo Alto area or where are you?