Hades: How Supergiant Turned Dying Into Storytelling

SPEAKER_1 (0:00)

So imagine for a second that you are trapped in hell, and your only way out is to literally fight your dad.

SPEAKER_2 (0:08)

Right, and every single time he kills you, you just wake up right back in his living room.

SPEAKER_1 (0:13)

Yeah, exactly, you have to just awkwardly look him in the eye and then try the whole thing again.

SPEAKER_2 (0:17)

It's just such a wild concept.

SPEAKER_1 (0:18)

It really is. Welcome to another Deep Dive, everyone. Today's mission is, well, we're exploring Hades.

SPEAKER_2 (0:27)

Yeah, the 2020 action role playing game by Supergiant Games.

SPEAKER_1 (0:31)

Right, which, I mean, it didn't just break the mold for indie games, it kind of entirely redefined how video games can tell a story.

SPEAKER_2 (0:38)

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_1 (0:39)

And we've got this huge stack of sources today. We're looking at the game's mechanics, this twisting Greek tragedy plot they put together. It's really fascinating development history and how it actually made literal science fiction history.

SPEAKER_2 (0:52)

Yeah, which is just insane to think about for a video game. Totally.

SPEAKER_1 (0:55)

But to really understand why this game works so well, we have to kind of look at the problem that Supergiant was facing right before they made it, right?

SPEAKER_2 (1:03)

Yeah, exactly. So after their previous game, which was called Pyre the Development Team, which was only about 20 people at the time, they realized they had this massive problem.

SPEAKER_1 (1:13)

Because they loved making these big branching narratives.

SPEAKER_2 (1:17)

Right. But the heartbreaking reality of game development is that most players only play a game one time.

SPEAKER_1 (1:23)

Yeah.

SPEAKER_2 (1:24)

So they would pour all this love into alternate storylines and players were just completely missing them.

SPEAKER_1 (1:29)

It's like writing a massive 500-page interactive novel. The reader just reads chapter one, skips to an ending, and puts the book back on the shelf forever.

SPEAKER_2 (1:39)

Exactly. All that extra content just vanishes. So they needed a format that inherently forced you to replay it.

SPEAKER_1 (1:47)

They needed failure to be part of the actual experience.

SPEAKER_2 (1:50)

Right. And that led them straight to the roguelike genre, where dying and starting over from scratch is just the fundamental core mechanic.

SPEAKER_1 (1:59)

But I mean, roguelikes are usually so punishing. They're famous for being frustrating. It's like Groundhog Day, but instead of just being a fun movie, you're the one getting punched in the face every morning.

SPEAKER_2 (2:09)

Right. But in this case, time loop is actually the only way you get to see the rest of the movie.

SPEAKER_1 (2:13)

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. But how do you attach a deep emotional story to a genre that's essentially designed to kick you in the teeth?

SPEAKER_2 (2:23)

Well, their first attempt to solve that puzzle didn't even involve Hades.

SPEAKER_1 (2:28)

Wait, really?

SPEAKER_2 (2:29)

Yeah. The original concept was going to be called Minos.

SPEAKER_1 (2:32)

Like King Minos.

SPEAKER_2 (2:33)

Exactly. You were going to play as the Greek hero Theseus, and the whole game was just you trying to escape the Labyrinth of the Manator.

SPEAKER_1 (2:43)

Okay. I mean, a shifting maze is like the perfect justification for a randomly generated roguelike level.

SPEAKER_2 (2:48)

It makes total mechanical sense. But the creative director, Greg Kasvin, he hit this narrative wall.

SPEAKER_1 (2:55)

Because of Theseus?

SPEAKER_2 (2:56)

Yeah. Theseus is just your standard stoic hero. He's brave, he's strong, but he's just incredibly one-dimensional.

SPEAKER_1 (3:03)

Right. He's boring.

SPEAKER_2 (3:05)

Exactly. It's really hard to attach a complex, emotional branching narrative to a guy with no real emotional friction.

SPEAKER_1 (3:13)

So what did they do?

SPEAKER_2 (3:15)

Kasvin took a step back, looked at Greek mythology as a whole, and he just fixated on Hades.

SPEAKER_1 (3:22)

The god of the underworld.

SPEAKER_2 (3:23)

Right. Because Hades is notoriously feared, and he's actually pretty underrepresented in classic myths, because the other gods were terrified of him.

And Kasvin realized that the Greek pantheon isn't just a bunch of Stoic deities, it is this massive, incredibly messy, highly dysfunctional family.

SPEAKER_1 (3:41)

Oh, that's so true. So they just threw Theseus out the window.

SPEAKER_2 (3:44)

Well, not entirely. They shifted the focus to Zagreus, the rebellious prince of the underworld.

SPEAKER_1 (3:50)

Right, so now you have this instant emotional hook, a kid trying to escape his unloving, overbearing dad.

SPEAKER_2 (3:57)

Exactly, it gives you slapstick comedy, deep resentment, genuine family drama.

SPEAKER_1 (4:01)

And wait, they didn't throw Theseus away entirely.

SPEAKER_2 (4:04)

No, they didn't, because 20% indie studio, nothing goes to waste.

SPEAKER_1 (4:08)

Right, they recycled him.