Gospel Authorship with Michael Kok

Michael Kok (0:01)

When it comes to authorship, I know these debates get heated and apologetic versus anti-apologetic. I would just probably defend maybe three theses where I would say, the Gospels are formerly anonymous.

The titles of the Gospel According to Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John are secondary, so they are added by scribes. And that we can kind of look at the traditions in the second century and kind of piece together why they ascribe them to those figures. And I think those Christians in the second century were answering questions in the second century. So they're more helpful for how did they receive the Gospels and maybe not necessarily are they historically accurate to how the Gospels originated.

Dan McClellan (0:49)

Hey everybody, I'm Dan McClellan.

Dan Beecher (0:51)

And I'm Dan Beecher.

Dan McClellan (0:52)

And you're listening to the Data Over Dogma podcast where we increase public access to the academic study of the Bible and religion.

And we combat the spread of misinformation about the same. How are things, Dan?

Dan Beecher (1:04)

Man, things are good.

It's a million degrees right now in Salt Lake City. But yeah.

Dan McClellan (1:09)

I got 96 right now. It was 100 yesterday.

Dan Beecher (1:13)

So, you know, we're out here melting, but that's all right. That's all right.

Fortunately, we're spending today talking to a Canadian. So maybe that will cool things down. I don't know.

Dan McClellan (1:24)

Yeah, we're gonna aim at the first half of our two rhetorical goals for this podcast. Increasing public access to the academic study of the Bible and religion by bringing on a longtime friend of mine and a specialist in gospel authorship, Michael Kok.

Welcome to the show, Michael.

Michael Kok (1:44)

Long time fan.

Dan McClellan (1:46)

Appreciate that very much. And we go all the way back to the aughts ooh, the the aughts back when we were Biblio bloggers.

Michael Kok (1:53)

Yeah, 2009 was when I started that. So I had a lecturer doing the same thing. So I copied him.

Dan McClellan (2:01)

Yeah, it was a different world back then.

But Michael is the New Testament lecturer at Moreland campus or Moreland College Perth campus, excuse me, in lovely Australia on the Western 40, where you can drive for a few days to get to the East Coast. But are there places to stop along the way or is it pretty rough?

Michael Kok (2:26)

I think it's pretty rough all the way. I've never tried to drive myself. My wife had when she had to bring over a car from Sydney to Perth.

Dan Beecher (2:34)

Wow.

Michael Kok (2:35)

Yeah, I think you just have to keep going.

Dan Beecher (2:38)

Just provision yourself well and watch out for kangaroos.

Dan McClellan (2:43)

Yes, and Michael, last year you published with Fortress Press, a book entitled Tax Collector to Gospel Writer, Patristic Traditions about the Evangelist Matthew. And you've done books on the Gospel of John and the Gospel of Mark, particularly on authorship of those.

Would you mind letting the folks know a little bit about yourself and maybe what got you interested in Gospel authorship?

Michael Kok (3:10)

Sure.

So I grew up in a Baptist home.

So when I was going to do undergrad, I was going to Bible college, thinking maybe be a pastor. And then I liked what my professors were doing and thought I could do the same thing. Yeah. But in that context, it was also a Baptist college. Learned the critical scholarship, but who wrote the Gospels, when, where, or just the New Testament in general. But in that kind of faith context where you can try to say what scholarship is saying, how can I integrate that into my worldview?

Dan McClellan (3:46)

If I may interrupt briefly, I was at Trinity Western University for one of my master's degrees, and there were some folks coming there from MDivs and from Bible colleges. And that was a big discussion was, we're learning this critical scholarship, and there seems to be a giant gulf between the Academy and the Pews.

And my understanding is that between seminaries and Bible colleges, you have a broad range of approaches to this, where sometimes they're teaching you this just so you can debunk it. Sometimes they're teaching you this, not expecting you to incorporate anything into what's being discussed in the congregations. I'm curious what your experience was, your professors, what their approach was, and how you responded to it.

Michael Kok (4:40)

Yeah, I mean, I thought they did pretty honest stuff. I mean, I think you probably had a range of perspectives on the faculty. And even, so I'm teaching at Baptist College now, I think there's one principle, the freedom of conscience. Okay, it's kind of follow the evidence where you think it leads, but also think about how it then applies to your worldview and practices. So, like I know, for instance, when you talk about an issue like pseudonymity, where all the New Testament books are written by their authors, you might get some faculty would do what you said to ban the traditional authorship. But others would try to say, well, here's the arguments for and against. And you follow your conscience where you think that leads and you make peace with that. However, you'd like to do that theologically. And I think that I was just teaching a class on the Gospel of John and similar thing. I tried to give a balanced take on the authorship question, but I got lots of student papers defending those written by the Apostle John in Ephesus. And I'm like, if they make a good argument in the position, they'll get a good grade. So I think that was the approach I received.