From Role to Soul: Who Are You Without What You Do? | Connie Zweig

Connie Zweig (0:00)

For some people, there's a late life identity crisis. Who am I if I'm not the doer? If I'm not going through the to-do list every day and getting it done, whether it's at the office or at the home, there's a sense of who am I now without that identity. And so many of the people I interviewed really felt a loss of a sense of self and a loss of a sense of purpose and meaning.

And they were disoriented, we were disoriented. I felt disoriented facing retirement.

SPEAKER_2 (0:35)

Welcome to The Midlife Chrysalis podcast with Chip Conley, where we explore how midlife isn't a crisis, but a Chrysalis, a time of profound transformation that can lead to the most meaningful chapter of your life.

Chip Conley (0:51)

Welcome to The Midlife Chrysalis. This is Chip Conley and what a delight to have a conversation in depth with somebody that has been just an inspiration to me. Her writing is so deep and meaningful. Her book, The Inner Work of Age, Shifting From Role to Soul, is one of many books she has, but that's the one that quite frankly is probably one of the top three books I recommend to people in MEA programs. Connie Zweig has had many roles in her life. She's moved from role to soul, but she's had many roles.

Some of the things I really admire about this conversation we have is, she's really helping us to see that not everybody turns into an elder. Everybody turns older, but there's a certain process and a ritual and initiation that turns you into an elder. As a 77-year-old, she certainly is that. She's somebody who I admire because we have Carl Jung in common and also an interest in Bolly and just a whole bunch of different interests. I think for those of you who are spiritually inclined, you will find this to be a very nourishing conversation. After our conversation, I will come back with the three key things that I learned.

Connie, thank you for joining us on The Midlife Chrysalis. I have recommended your book, Inner Work of Age, Shifting from Role to Soul, to probably, I don't know, I only have about 9,000 alumni now at MEA, and they've probably all heard about it at this point. But in my purpose fellowship this year, which is 28 people, twice a year, two different groups going through a year-long program, it's required reading. So it's great to have you here.

Connie Zweig (2:37)

Thank you so much. I love that.

Chip Conley (2:40)

I think it's the best book ever written, and I'm no hyperbole here, the best book ever written on the topic of what's the upside of aging. So let's start with when you were aging at a young age, because here's the truth about life. We are growing and aging our whole life. It's almost as if you're growing, you see like Johnny or Judy and you say to them at age 15, oh my Judy, look at how you've grown. That's actually sort of an awkward thing to say to a girl at 15

And then somehow at age 20 or 25, you're no longer growing. And then there's this little period of time when we're not aging either. And then there's a period of time where you're like, oh, you're aging. But we have old growth forests, might we have old growth humans as well.

So tell us about your growing and aging process early in life that led you to who you are today.

Connie Zweig (3:34)

And my tree rings.

Yeah. I know we've associated this word age with certain stages of life, but from the minute we're conceived, we're aging, right?

So for me, I can recall in childhood, very difficult experiences with my maternal grandparents. I didn't know my paternal grandparents, but my mom's parents were nearby and they were troubled immigrants and I didn't have a positive role model of growing old as a result of that. Of course, I wasn't aware of that as a kid. I was aware of the way my mother was modeling womanhood and being a wife, and I became aware pretty young that I didn't want to live her life when I was her age. That morphed into I didn't want to have kids, and then I didn't want to get married, and so on. Because what she was modeling was so unhappy. So I didn't have a positive role model at home. And in those days, the media didn't have positive role models. There are some now, it's rare, but there are some. And so I'm not sure where my interest in this came from. Although I'll tell you Chip, it came late. You know, I have had a number of careers and written a number of books before The Inner Work of Age. And it was only in my late 60s where I really turned my attention to shadow work or the point of view of the unconscious and age. It was only when that stage of life and the contemplation of retirement and growing older was really in my face and mortality. You know, and once those were in my face, I started looking for material to guide me. And I didn't think about this at midlife. I know you use that word a lot, but for me, my career was very meaningful at that time. I met my husband when I was 45, and that was really the first commitment that I made. We got married when I was 50 So at that stage of life, I wasn't turning my attention toward aging. I was just thriving. And so it only came in my late 60s as a result of the kind of transitions that everybody goes through, you know. Health crises, I have breast cancer, wanting to end my career as a therapist of 30 years, beginning to feel disoriented and curious about what's next, but also anxious about the uncertainty and so on, like everybody feels. And I couldn't find anything in depth psychology. I mean, Jung wrote a bit about it.