Founders: Nasty Gal's "Girl Boss" on shoplifting, empire building and life after bankruptcy

**Leanna Byrne** (0:04)
Hello, this is Business Daily on the BBC World Service. I'm Leanna Byrne. Today, I am speaking with Sophia Amoruso, the founder of Nasty Gal. According to Forbes, Sophia was richer than Beyoncé at one stage, but since her company has gone bankrupt and she now has a new venture on her hands, she's gonna talk about it all with us. Sophia, hello. Thank you so much for joining us on Meet the Founders.

**Sophia Amoruso** (0:26)
Hi, nice to meet you.

**Leanna Byrne** (0:27)
How do you feel about, you know, richer than Beyoncé? I mean, there's been so much stuff written about you. There was a Netflix series. Does that sometimes feel a little bit removed?

**Sophia Amoruso** (0:37)
I mean, that was what, over 10 years ago? So I've done a lot since then. I don't really think that much about it. It's like, it was a cool thing to have happen. And I built an incredible company and created a lot of value and made a lot of people really happy. But I've been focused on different things for quite a long time.

**Leanna Byrne** (0:55)
I remember first coming across Nasty Gal, it was obviously a long time ago, but I always thought it was such a cool website. Like the clothes were great, the models were great, and I was just like, I just want to be them. So it does really a testament to like how much of a good marketer you are.

**Sophia Amoruso** (1:09)
Thank you.

**Leanna Byrne** (1:10)
So Sophia, let's go back to the very beginning. What is one memory from your childhood that maybe explains who you are today? What were you like as a child?

**Sophia Amoruso** (1:19)
I was a very angsty child and just kind of came out a certain way. I wasn't a fan of authority and questioned a lot, and I felt like I didn't quite belong. We also moved a lot, so that doesn't help.
And as I became a teenager, I was really not a fan of capitalism. I went to anarchist book fairs. I didn't want to live within the system. I remember going to high school and you sit there for an hour, a bell rings, and you stand up and you walk to the next room, the same room every day, and you get up and you're at a desk. And so I was like, wait, I know about this Pavlov guy.
I know I'm being trained to sit at a desk and have a life that I don't necessarily want. And so I homeschooled for the second half of high school, moved out when I was 17, experienced the world, moved around a little bit, and was very much not interested in working for other people. But I wasn't necessarily motivated to start a company, but it was through the struggle of trying to evade work that I found myself building something that was actually really fun. And because it generated cash and paid for my rent was work, but it didn't feel like work for a very long time.

**Leanna Byrne** (2:38)
Sophia, who taught you about money? Was it your parents or did it come from somewhere else?

**Sophia Amoruso** (2:43)
My understanding of money for at least half of the time that I built Nasty Gal was that you buy things for less money than you sell them for and you don't spend all the money. I didn't have any startup capital. I didn't invest my own money. I was flipping clothes. And so that was just necessity. That was the world that I lived in.

**Leanna Byrne** (3:03)
When you were learning to sell online, I believe you went through a period where you were doing a bit of shoplifting.

**Sophia Amoruso** (3:09)
Yeah, when I was 17, I was like, what are these big bucks, corporate stores? And are they really going to feel it if I steal a loaf of bread or a soccer ball or tampons or whatever I felt like I needed that day? And so I did that. And there was a short time where I was an Amazon reseller. So I guess I was early to two of the first online marketplaces. And I would go find New York Times bestselling books. And I'd just walk in and I pile up a stack of the ones that were just on the front table and I just turn around and walk out. And I'm not really proud of that, especially as an author. You know, when you're 17, you don't really understand how the world works and what the implications of what you're doing can be. And you know, I was just trying to live free in some way. And I think a lot of people understand that maybe that's just a bad idea and they don't do it. But for me, there was also just kind of something fun about it, just like, how can I live outside of what looks like a really boring future if I go get a job, you know, five days a week and do the same thing for the rest of my life? It just seemed like hell to me.