Fostering a Culture of Inclusivity with Fredric Abramson

**SPEAKER_1** (0:05)
The Bliss Business Podcast, the show about empathy, connection and consciousness in business. Today's episode is brought to you by Zero Company, your paid search, social media, and programmatic ad experts.

**Stephen Sakach** (0:19)
Welcome back to the show, everyone. I'm Stephen Sakach here with my co-host Tullio Siragusa and our special guests who we'll introduce in a moment. So research from McKinsey shows that organizations in the top quartile for diversity are significantly more likely to outperform their peers on profitability. They're creating inclusive environments. It's not just a moral initiative, it is actually a business imperative that influences innovation, retention, long-term growth, and many other things. Today, we are exploring what it means to foster a culture of inclusivity and how leaders can move from good intentions to meaningful everyday actions. Tullio, introduce our special guest today.

**Tullio Siragusa** (1:07)
My pleasure. Our guest today is Fredric Abramson. He's a multidisciplinary problem solver whose career spans science, technology, business, and law. Trained in mathematical biology and genetics, he was an early pioneer in applying data and decision systems to healthcare, including work that would now be considered among the first big data analysis.
Before entering the legal profession, he built experience across academia, government, and entrepreneurship. Later earning his law degree with honors and being admitted to multiple bars, including the US Supreme Court. Today, Fredric advises businesses on contracts and intellectual property, teaches biotechnology and business at John Hopkins, and is known for helping leaders make smarter decision by aligning legal strategy with real business goals. Fredric, welcome to The Bliss Business Podcast. It's great to have you.

**Fredric Abramson** (2:03)
Thank you guys. I appreciate the opportunity to share thoughts, and I'm honored that you're including me in this terrific podcast activity.

**Stephen Sakach** (2:17)
Well, and inclusion is our topic today.
Fredric, inclusivity, it's a word that we hear frequently, but it can mean different things depending on the organization. How do you kind of define that in a way that, you know, maybe leaders can actually pull out and practice in their business?

**Fredric Abramson** (2:38)
That's a great question. And I think of it as going beyond the superficial of race, sex, national origin, things like that. And I would draw on my experience in teaching and business and other things, where I learned that in any group that you have, you can create a sense of belonging.
Because if they feel people, if people feel they belong, then you're creating a culture of inclusivity. Does that make sense?

**Stephen Sakach** (3:20)
Yeah, it does make sense. And it's something too, that's kind of interesting in our business and on the marketing side is you can chase trying to get transactions and get people to pay things, or you can chase that kind of sense of belonging, that they want to belong to what you're about. And so I think there's so many ways that when we focus on belonging, it really is an important part of any sort of organization.

**Tullio Siragusa** (3:50)
It reminds me of a conversation I used to have with one of my Radical purpose.org co-founders, Matt Perez, who passed away recently. We used to talk about how when an employee joins an organization, most companies, they think about inclusivity on how to bring them into the fold. And we would have conversation about anytime someone joins the organization, the organization changes and evolves with each person because they bring in their own version of something. And really, what being inclusive is about being expansive. So the question I have for years, you've had experience across all spectrums of life, academia, government, business. Where do you see leaders most commonly fall short when trying to create inclusive environments and what is the impact that this has on their teams?

**Fredric Abramson** (4:48)
That's a wonderful question. And I think it is that many times people think that if you bring in a person that's different Y than the Xs that are in your group, that you're being inclusive. But I think that's not inclusivity. That's really a starting point. But it isn't the end point. And really the issue is how do you behave with people? How do you engage them? How do you create a culture in which you reward honesty and integrity and promote the ability to collaborate without hard judgments and blame? Does that make sense?
And I will share as an experiential thing. This is part of what, as a teacher in higher education. So when you went to college, you went into a class for the first time, and you sat down with 10, 15, 20 other people, many of whom you don't know, particularly from the big university. How does a teacher build a culture of inclusivity for that group? The way I did it was by engaging the students in conversations, interactive with me, but also with each other. So for example, I would assign readings, and then I would, in the beginning of a class, I would say, Mr. Siragusa, is your last name Siragusa?