Ex-Google Exec (Mo Gawdat) on AI: The Next 15 Years Will Be Hell Before We Get To Heaven… And Only These 5 Jobs Will Remain!

SPEAKER_1 (0:01)

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Mo Gawdat (0:30)

The only way for us to get to a better place and succeed as a species is for the evil people at the top to be replaced with AI. I mean, think about it. AI will not want to destroy ecosystems. It will not want to kill a million people. They will not make us hate each other like the current leaders, because that's a waste of energy, explosives, money and people. But the problem is, super intelligent AI is reporting to stupid leaders. And that's why in the next 15 years, we are going to hit a short-term dystopia. There's no escaping that.

Steven Bartlett (0:59)

Having AI leaders, is that even fundamentally possible?

Mo Gawdat (1:03)

Let's put it this way.

SPEAKER_4 (1:04)

Mo Gawdat is back. And the former Chief Business Officer at Google X is now one of the most urgent voices in AI with a very clear message.

SPEAKER_5 (1:13)

AI isn't your enemy, but it could be your savior.

Mo Gawdat (1:17)

I love you so much, man. You're such a good friend. But you don't have many years to live, not in this world. Everything is going to change. Economics are going to change. Human connection is going to change. And lots of jobs will be lost, including podcasts.

Steven Bartlett (1:30)

No, no. Thank you for coming on today, Mo.

Mo Gawdat (1:34)

But the truth is, it could be the best world ever. The society completely full of laughter and joy. Free healthcare, no jobs, spending more time with their loved ones. A world where all of us are equal.

Steven Bartlett (1:45)

Is that possible?

Mo Gawdat (1:46)

100 percent. And I have enough evidence to know that we can use AI to build the utopia. But it's a dystopia if humanity manages it badly. A world where there's going to be a lot of control, a lot of surveillance, a lot of forced compliance. And a hunger for power, greed, ego. And it is happening already. But the truth is, the only barrier between a utopia for humanity and AI and the dystopia we're going through is our mindset.

Steven Bartlett (2:10)

What does society have to do?

Mo Gawdat (2:12)

First of all...

Steven Bartlett (2:15)

Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning in to the show week after week. It means the world to all of us and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm going to make to you. I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can now and into the future. We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to. And we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you.

Mo, two years ago today, we sat here and discussed AI. We discussed your book Scary Smart and everything that was happening in the world. Since then, AI has continued to develop at a tremendous alarming mind boggling rate. And the technologies that existed two years ago, we had that conversation, have grown up and matured in our taking on a life of their own. No pun intended. What are you thinking about AI now, two years on? I know that you've started writing a new book called The Live, which is, I guess, a bit of a follow on or an evolution of your thoughts as it relates to Scary Smart. But what is front of your mind when it comes to AI?

Mo Gawdat (3:37)

So Scary Smart was shockingly accurate.

I mean, I don't even know how I ended up writing, predicting those things. I remember it was written in 2020, published in 2021 Then most people were like, who wants to talk about AI? I know everybody in the media and I would go and go, do you want to talk? Then 2023, Chia GPT comes out and everything flips. Everyone realizes, this is real, this is not science fiction, this is here. Things move very, very fast, much faster than I think we've ever seen anything ever move ever. I think my position has changed on two very important fronts. One is, remember when we spoke about Scary Smart, I was still saying that there are things we can do to change the course. We could at the time, I believe. Now, I've changed my mind. Now, I believe that we are going to hit a short term dystopia. There's no escaping that.