Eric Maddox – The Ace of Spades

**SPEAKER_1** (0:24)
Patrick O'Shaughnessy is a principal and portfolio manager at O'Shaughnessy Asset Management. All opinions expressed by Patrick and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Clients of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.

**Patrick O'Shaughnessy** (0:47)
This week, we explore a rare and underappreciated skill through the lens of an incredible story. My guest is Eric Maddox, whose name you probably don't know but won't soon forget. Just trust me that you need to listen to this entire episode and listen carefully, because that is what the episode is ultimately all about, how to listen to others with care and empathy in the age of distraction. Sometimes it's fun not to know what's coming and be surprised, so I won't say any more. After the episode, you can learn about Eric at ericmaddox.com.
Now on his wall, Eric has a framed Cuban cigar, and he starts his story by explaining the significance of that cigar. Enjoy this episode and try Eric's method. It has worked wonders for me.
Okay, Eric, thank you very much for joining me today. I think we're going to have a really interesting story to hear from you, but also a lot of interesting lessons about how to listen better, how to communicate better, and maybe the way that we could jump in is with a picture from your book that nobody can see, but I was really intrigued by, which is a framed picture of a cigar. Maybe you could tell people the origin of that cigar, and then we'll go from there.

**Eric Maddox** (1:52)
Sure. Thanks for having me, Patrick. So, in my book, I put a picture of a cigar that came from the hole that we drugged Saddam Hussein out of in 2003
The Delta team that I was with, they pulled him out of the hole, and they got Saddam, which was the key catch. They got $750,000 cash that went to the Army, and they got a Glock pistol that went to President Bush, and they had a box of Cuban cigars, and the Delta Force team gave me one of the Cuban cigars. So, I've received a lot of medals and a lot of accolades for that, but the cigar from the Delta Force team probably means more than any other award I've received.

**Patrick O'Shaughnessy** (2:42)
So, the cigar commemorates your role in quite an amazing story, and maybe we can go back to what you feel is an appropriate starting point. It doesn't have to be the same as the book, but where this journey kicked off and how kind of your unique set of skills made you the right person to ultimately be the one that won that cigar.

**Eric Maddox** (3:03)
Sure. So, a little bit of background. I was an Army Staff Sergeant.
I'd been an infantry guy for three years, and then I became a Chinese Mandarin linguist.
So, the Army spent 17 months, Monterey, California, the Language Institute in the 90s teaching me Chinese Mandarin. Well, you also have to have an MOS. You have to have a job. And they said, hey, go do this eight weeks of interrogations. You'll never do an interrogation ever, ever. You'll be our linguist. And so, I learned Chinese Mandarin, went and worked at the embassy in Beijing, and from 2001 to 2004, I was working as a Chinese Mandarin linguist in Los Angeles, California. Well, of course, we went to war in 2003, and I was told I'm never going. I'm Chinese Mandarin linguist. And pretty soon into the war, I get told I'm going to Baghdad. Didn't know who it was, what group I was joining. I get there, and it's the group, the individuals who are supposed to track down everyone on the deck of cards. So if you remember in 2003, it was Saddam, Ace of Spades, and his regime members.
And I had never actually done an interrogation. I mean, they brought me in as an interrogator, and I'd never done an interrogation, because I've been working as a Chinese Mandarin linguist, knew nothing about Iraq, really didn't know anything about Saddam. So they sent me kind of out, out of outside the area of Baghdad, where all the action was. And they sent me to kind of a danger zone up there in Tikrit with the Delta Force team, who had indicated they wanted a guy who could go on raids with them. And because of my infantry background, the interrogator said, yeah, send them to Tikrit.
And by the way, there's nobody important in Tikrit. There's nobody on the deck of cards in Tikrit, because it was such a small town that they'd checked every house.