Elizabeth Holmes Doc, Pope Leo Cancer, Bryan Johnson Genome

Zubin Damania (0:00)

And we're live, VPZD, episode four to the six. Oh man, we're gonna talk about Lizzie Holmes. Let's do the stare.

Vinay Prasad (0:10)

Why would I try to deceive you, Zubin?

Zubin Damania (0:12)

Yeah.

Vinay Prasad (0:12)

Why would I try?

Zubin Damania (0:14)

The entire universe in a single drop of capillary blood.

We're gonna talk about popliocanc... It is cancer, yeah, yeah. I didn't want to use the C word inappropriately, but it is. And then we're gonna talk about Bryan Johnson renouncing the genome.

Vinay Prasad (0:30)

That's right. It's done him no good.

Zubin Damania (0:31)

Not a bit. And I can say I've had a similar experience with genomics and we can talk about that. Oh, good. Quick bit of housekeeping from last week. Our audience being smarty-panses wanted to make us, make sure we clarified our conversation on brain death. There is a distinction between a clinical, an evaluation by a competent examiner, whatever that means, of actual brain death, meaning there is no chance of waking up if the exam is done correctly. It's akin to having no heart or stopping breathing forever. And in those cases, legally, it's a definition under the law, the family cannot say prolonged care.

At that point, it's a decision, do you donate organs or not from the family?

Versus what we were really talking about, which is more a severe brain damage, where there is a question of, will time answer the, time may be the only thing that can answer that question as to whether they're gonna wake up. So, thanks to our neuro ICU people.

Vinay Prasad (1:25)

So that's VPZD, the commitment to the truth.

Zubin Damania (1:28)

That's right.

Vinay Prasad (1:28)

Fact checking.

Zubin Damania (1:29)

Even when we suck at it.

Vinay Prasad (1:36)

This doctor who wrote to us is keen to unplug a ventilator this afternoon, so they want to make sure. Make it happen, make it happen. They want to make sure the distinction is well known.

Zubin Damania (1:44)

Now, one thing that that doctor did mention is, it's also, the key thing is a competent medical examiner. So, you have to make sure that they didn't make a mis-ascertainment of brain death. And we got our first comments here. Canoons is here and Cat W. But did you die?

Oh, VP, one quick other thing. I did my first travel speaking engagement.

Vinay Prasad (2:05)

You did, you're back. In three years. Oh, from Dallas.

Zubin Damania (2:07)

From Dallas, and it was so much fun.

Vinay Prasad (2:08)

It was PMAB.

Zubin Damania (2:09)

It was an organization.

Vinay Prasad (2:09)

Was it nice and hot there?

Zubin Damania (2:10)

It was actually like 70s. Oh, that's good. It was really nice. And I got some great door dash from a place called Rodeo Goat. Rodeo Goat.

Yeah, nasty burger with all kinds of cheese.

Vinay Prasad (2:23)

Goat burger.

Zubin Damania (2:23)

It was a goat burger. Yeah, it was a Clovenhoof burger.

Vinay Prasad (2:27)

So how was the talk?

Zubin Damania (2:28)

You know, it was a panel discussion and it was lovely because there was no Zubin in it trying to show that he knew stuff.

Vinay Prasad (2:36)

So it was just you, one among many. You were one of many panelists.

Zubin Damania (2:39)

Exactly.

Vinay Prasad (2:39)

Who do they put on a panel with you?

Zubin Damania (2:42)

People that are way smarter than me.

Vinay Prasad (2:44)

So it's like-

Zubin Damania (2:45)

About pain medicine.

Vinay Prasad (2:46)

A credible pain expert, Zubin Damania.

Zubin Damania (2:48)

Yeah, the founders of the org. Yeah, it was great. The audience was wonderful. And it just felt nice to do that, even though, you know, I'm dead inside.

It was a beautiful experience. Now that said, let's talk about another-

Vinay Prasad (3:00)

I actually did a panel. You did a panel? Yeah, on Saturday for-

Zubin Damania (3:04)

But you're in the world all the time.

Vinay Prasad (3:05)

Some biotech conference. And then the first question was, what longevity target do you find most promising, Dr. Prasad? And I was like, I'm not the right person to ask.

Zubin Damania (3:13)

You're asking, that's like asking the Pope, so what part of atheism do you love the most?

Vinay Prasad (3:21)

Longevity, oh, you asked Bryan Johnson.

Zubin Damania (3:23)

Yeah, yeah.

Vinay Prasad (3:24)

All right, where do we start? Bryan Johnson, Elizabeth Holmes, Pope Leo, where do you want to begin?

Zubin Damania (3:27)

Let's go Liz Holmes since it's the first in our title. Liz Holmes. Lizzy Holmes.

Vinay Prasad (3:31)

So Liz Holmes, she sold a little device called Theranos. I don't know if you know, but it didn't work.