E178: Tushar Jain, Multicoin CoFounder: The 3 Coins His Multi-Billion Dollar Fund Is Bullish On This Cycle

**Tushar Jain** (0:00)
I don't think you can pick the exact moment, but you can see the signs. One of the signs for me that works really well for me is, when do I feel like an idiot for being in the industry? When I feel really dumb, I know I should probably buy. And when I feel like an absolute genius, probably should take something off the table.

**Kevin Follonier** (0:16)
Buy when you feel like you're an idiot for being here. Sell when you think you're a genius. Is there one for you that's easier or much harder than the other?

**Tushar Jain** (0:22)
Oh, they're both pretty hard.

**Kevin Follonier** (0:25)
Tushar Jain, the managing partner and chief investment officer of Multicoin Capital.

**Tushar Jain** (0:30)
A thesis-driven investment firm focused on crypto assets. He's a leading investor.

**Kevin Follonier** (0:35)
Shaping crypto markets through conviction. You say, okay, here, like I'm bullish on both Solana and Hyperliquid. How do you size that?

**Tushar Jain** (0:41)
Sizing is an art, not a science. You can sit there and build these models with precision. But when you're a longer-term investor, trying to size things just quantitatively, I think is a trap. You should be very concentrated in your best ideas.

**Kevin Follonier** (0:54)
What's the potential time for an asset like Zcash?

**Tushar Jain** (0:57)
When I talk about a business, I can say, well, I think this is what the revenue is going to grow to. This is what I think the profits are. That's my price point. When it comes to something like Zcash, I think about it, where is it on the list? Is it number 20? Is it number 15? Number 10? Is it in the top five? I think it's going to go top five. That's how I think about it.

**Kevin Follonier** (1:12)
Why are you still here when some key people in the industry, like a co-founder, have left? Because they don't believe in crypto early promises anymore.

**Tushar Jain** (1:20)
So that's a really good question. And let me give you a peek behind this whole process. Because...

**Kevin Follonier** (1:29)
Hi everyone, this is the little bit that I know none of you like that can help us make a huge difference for this show and we want to take it next. 71% of the people who regularly watch When Shift Happens have not subscribed. And so all I'd ask you if you want to make a huge difference is the following. If you've seen this show before and you like it, help me, help my team, hit the subscribe button and we'll continue to build this show for you. Thank you.
Solana Gold Card, KAST Card.

**Tushar Jain** (2:01)
Okay, maybe I need to get one of those.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:04)
I'll send you my link, absolutely.
They have four versions of the Gold Card. They have the Bitcoin one, they have the Peng one, which is super nice. I can show you later. They have the KAST one, and they have the Solana one.

**Tushar Jain** (2:16)
I think I'll get the Solana one.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:19)
That's why I put this one right. I was like, this one is the most relevant to you. I feel very privileged that you come to see us just before going to the airport.

**Tushar Jain** (2:26)
Oh, thank you for having me. It's good to be back.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:28)
Pleasure, yes, it's been already a year and a half, or almost two years, I think.

**Tushar Jain** (2:31)
No, I think two.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:32)
Yeah, a bit less.

**Tushar Jain** (2:34)
Yeah.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:34)
How are you?

**Tushar Jain** (2:35)
I'm doing well. Life is good.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:37)
Life is good.

**Tushar Jain** (2:38)
Yes.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:39)
Markets are starting to move in favor again.

**Tushar Jain** (2:43)
This is the most exciting part of the cycle, right? I think is when you see turning points, and I think we're at a turning point now.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:52)
What makes you tell or say that we're at the turning point?

**Tushar Jain** (2:56)
There's a few things. One is you have to see the sentiment really bottom out before it can turn. Same as in a bull market, you need to see the sentiment really get euphoric before you think it's going to turn. And second is when bad news no longer sends markets down, that's a sign of a turning point. And when good news no longer sends the market up, that's sign of a turning point. And we had some pretty bad news this last month with some pretty significant hacks, and that didn't cause a bunch of sell-offs. That was a big sign right there. And then you also add in all of the adoption tailwinds that are happening, where there's just been this disconnect between price and what's fundamentally happening.