E164: GSR CEO: The New Era of Crypto Is About to Begin

**Kevin Follonier** (0:00)
Why now is the right moment to focus on tokenization?

**Xin Song** (0:02)
There's a lot of misconception about tokenization. The market hasn't really developed yet. There's a lot of people that are supplying asset, but the demand side hasn't really come yet. Well, we think it's going to happen in the next few years. And one of the other things is learning that the market's got to be big enough. This is a huge market.

**Kevin Follonier** (0:16)
How huge is it?

**Xin Song** (0:16)
Nobody knows right now, but the best estimate is 15 to 30 trillion dollars.

**SPEAKER_3** (0:21)
Xin, the group CEO of GSR Markets.

**SPEAKER_4** (0:25)
A global digital asset trading firm providing institutional liquidity across 200 plus assets and 25 fiat currencies.

**SPEAKER_3** (0:33)
A leader scaling GSR's global strategy across trading, OTC and token markets.

**Kevin Follonier** (0:38)
What needs to happen for this 10% of 300 trillion securities market to be on chain?

**Xin Song** (0:42)
Like any two-sided market, you got to find the other side. There's a lot of supply. They can't actually find buyers. The obvious starting point for us is helping the foundations to diversify their holdings.

**Kevin Follonier** (0:51)
Why do market makers in crypto have a bad reputation?

**Xin Song** (0:54)
It's an under-regulated market. There's not enough people out there that want to do things the right way. They want to optimize for short-term gains. They're transactional. There isn't enough enforcement.

**Kevin Follonier** (1:04)
How do we fix the crypto market maker's reputation?

**Xin Song** (1:06)
Change the structure. Why does Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan not have a reputational program? Because they've been doing it for years like us. And generally, they've been doing the right thing because actually you can do well and do good at the same time. But that has to come together with a structure and regulation that removes potential conflicts of interest.

**Kevin Follonier** (1:21)
Moving to crypto, teach us, what do you realize that most people in crypto still don't understand that, hey, we're actually not better than Tratify.

**Xin Song** (1:30)
Yeah.

**Kevin Follonier** (1:35)
Hi, everyone. This is the little bit that I know none of you like that can help us make a huge difference for this show and we want to take it next. 71% of the people who regularly watch When Shift Happens have not subscribed. And so all I'd ask you if you want to make a huge difference is the following. If you've seen this show before and you like it, help me, help my team, hit the subscribe button and we'll continue to build this show for you. Thank you. I was always thinking if I go to bed at 2 a.m. and I wake up at 10 a.m. that's eight hours sleep. Well, that's six hours sleep. That's actually six hours sleep.

**Xin Song** (2:11)
Yes.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:11)
Like six and a half sometimes, but it's still way too low. And I'm like, oh shit. So I need to spend much more time in bed actually to be able to sleep more.

**Xin Song** (2:20)
Yeah, but the body clock, like it's not just about how much you sleep, it's also like when you sleep, right?

**Kevin Follonier** (2:25)
For sure, for sure.

**Xin Song** (2:26)
The circadian rhythm.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:28)
Going to sleep at 2 a.m. is terrible.

**Xin Song** (2:31)
Yeah, my body age would probably show I'm six years older than I am actually. I might look six years younger.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:37)
I wanted to say you look.

**Xin Song** (2:39)
It's the Asian gene.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:40)
How old are you? How young are you?

**Xin Song** (2:42)
39

**Kevin Follonier** (2:43)
39

**Xin Song** (2:44)
Yes.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:44)
Yeah, we definitely look 35

**Xin Song** (2:47)
Ask you to guess first. Yeah. I think we're similar age, no?

**Kevin Follonier** (2:51)
Yeah, we're similar age. You're 35 and I'm 34

**Xin Song** (2:54)
That's right. If only. If only. Got to hit the gym a bit more often. Do I wish?

**Kevin Follonier** (3:01)
If only.

**Xin Song** (3:03)
I don't know. No, I'm happy the way I am. Who wants to live forever? Hey, let's make the most of what we have.

**Kevin Follonier** (3:10)
Yeah. What's the advantage of age and maturity?

**Xin Song** (3:19)
What's the advantage of age and maturity? Wisdom. Knowing that you fucked up before and trying not to fuck up again.

**SPEAKER_4** (3:28)
Yes.

**Kevin Follonier** (3:30)
Give me an example of fuck up.

**Xin Song** (3:36)
So, I think in my startup experience, right? Before I joined GSR, we were one of the earliest market makers on Deribit in crypto options with my own hedge fund. I think that was a great learning experience. I think what were we doing then? We were market makers in a very nascent asset class, in a niche asset, which is crypto, in a niche instrument, which was options, right?