E163: Jupiter President: How Crypto Will Replace Your Bank (And Why Wall Street Knows It)

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (0:00)
If you believe that crypto is not just about Bitcoin and altcoin, if you believe real world things can come on-chain over time, if stablecoin is the first step, then the question becomes, where do you draw the line? It's just a question of time. And I think that's what's so exciting building out on-chain.

**Kevin Follonier** (0:15)
What's on-chain finance like in five years?

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (0:17)
I think...

**Kevin Follonier** (0:20)
Xiao Xiaojie Zhu, the president of Jupiter.

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (0:22)
A leading DeFi platform with over $2 trillion in volume.

**Kevin Follonier** (0:25)
A former KKR and BCG strategist. What is Jupiter Global?

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (0:29)
It's basically the first ever on-chain QR Pay that allows the small merchant in the Vietnamese jungle to accept on-chain assets via QR Pay with zero fees. We literally build it with a team of like four or five people. And it's like global launch.

**Kevin Follonier** (0:41)
You left Trezor, FI and KKR for crypto, but more specifically Jupiter.

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (0:44)
A track record of actually building products that people just love using. And you have a very loyal retail customer base, very core use case around the aggregation and then around which they have built a whole suite of flywheel of products.

**Kevin Follonier** (0:57)
This podcast is called When Shift Happens. What shift is happening now that most people still don't see?

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (1:02)
I believe tokenization can be a lot bigger. A lot of people now talk about tokenization, but it will require some very radical and fundamental changes than the way tokenization are done today.

**Kevin Follonier** (1:12)
ParaFi invested $35 million in DripToken. Can you explain simply what's the logic behind that? Yeah...
Hi, everyone. This is the little bit that I know none of you like that can help us make a huge difference for this show, and we want to take it next. 71% of the people who regularly watch When Shift Happens have not subscribed. And so all I'd ask you if you want to make a huge difference is the following. If you've seen this show before and you like it, help me, help my team, hit the subscribe button, and we'll continue to build this show for you. Thank you. What's your feeling about Dubai in a new way? Personal.

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (1:57)
Personal, outside of the financial tax and so on. I think strategically it just makes so much more sense, right? The location is perfect. The weather is perfect half of the year. The other is terrible the other half of the year. But being able to go equal distance to London, New York, to Singapore is useful, but it's also painful because you have to cover both.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:26)
But everyone leaving the UK to go to Dubai now. I mean, Europe even in general, I would say.

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (2:31)
I would say.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:31)
Crazy.

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (2:33)
When you have small kids, I think like I do, it's good.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:36)
It's much better than London for the kids.

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (2:39)
But once they get into proper school, primary high school, we might reconsider.

**Kevin Follonier** (2:46)
When is that? Many years away?

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (2:49)
Four or five years, I would say. Like proper consideration. Where are you? Singapore?

**Kevin Follonier** (2:54)
Singapore. From Switzerland, but based in Singapore. Okay. Moved out actually. I was in Hong Kong, Singapore, Madrid, London, Geneva, Dubai. I was just six months in Shanghai. No, no, no. 2013 Ah, okay. I was e-commerce.

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (3:11)
What did you do?

**Kevin Follonier** (3:12)
I was working for... I was with my university doing some work for like Shenzhen, I mean Hermes.

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (3:19)
Oh, okay.

**Kevin Follonier** (3:21)
And some luxury brands there. Oh, wow. Yeah.

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (3:24)
We got to properly sit down and have a drink, et cetera.

**Kevin Follonier** (3:29)
We're having a drink here, some beautiful water. That's what we do here.

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (3:33)
All right. Do I need a mug as well? Or like you have your famous mugs, no? Like, but that's yours. So.

**Kevin Follonier** (3:39)
Well, I have this one, but it was used by the previous guest, so I don't.

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (3:43)
Yeah, let's not do it.

**Kevin Follonier** (3:47)
Finishing tonight? Finishing tomorrow?

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (3:50)
This is just a conference part, right? There's still like an end from tomorrow, finally, then you can sit together and actually work with the team.

**Kevin Follonier** (3:58)
Try to do some work.

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (3:59)
Yeah.

**Kevin Follonier** (4:01)
Stop partying, start working.

**Xiao-Xiao Zhu** (4:03)
It's not partying. The team is just like, they just keep, they just continue to build stuff, right? And you try to have a little bit more structure and so on.