Duff and The Doctor - (22.07.2026)

**SPEAKER_1** (0:00)
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**David Wirrpanda** (1:00)
Doctor, doctor, give me the news.

**Mark Duffield** (1:06)
Yes, it's almost as good as warfy time. The boom, boom, boom, boom gets that pulse racing and your head thumping if you've had a few beers the night before. It's time for Duff and The Doctor, and it's brought to you thanks to Blackline. That is B-L-A-K Line Aboriginal-owned business delivering signage, print, promotional products and creative services with cultural integrity and impact. Sitting across the desk for me now, looking more contrite than Barnaby Joyce's dog is Dr. Sean Gorman. Sit down!
Sean, welcome.

**Sean Gorman** (1:42)
It might not be warfy time, but it's boofhead time, most definitely here. But Barnaby, you gotta love him, don't you? Gotta love him. Fantastic stuff. Well, I don't know if it's colder here or in Melbourne. I think it might be a bit colder here in Perth, just for people to make the comparison, having been there last week. But yeah, lots of stuff being going on, Duff.
Obviously, and we try to focus a bit on that indigenous stories that are coming through. And obviously the ones that are front and centre at the moment, Bobby Hill and Tyson Stengel on the verge of departing their clubs at least, and possibly the code, which is a concern for many. I know it's definitely a concern for me and for you, and it's probably a concern for their clubs, because these are blue chip players. Let's not make any bones about that. Jamara Uigle, Hagen, there's another situation there. And obviously, within the broader ecosystem, and I don't want to keep going on about the Windmar situation at all with what's happened there. But player numbers, Windmar, the AFL will never be able to use that image ever again. Yeah, ever.
And regardless, and they've used it a lot, and I know this because I've studied it, looked at it, worked in the space, and the amount of times that they've used that thing for whatever reason, for a promotion of this or that or the other, there's actually a massive, great big painting as you turn to the left at Docklands at the AFL house. And the middle of that painting is this huge sort of paint about peace by, of Nicky Windmar there. So there's a bit going on in the space of Indigenous football, which is a concern. And obviously with Fly coming out yesterday on the news and saying to Bobby, we love you wherever you are, take care. And it's like, man, this is really strange.

**Mark Duffield** (3:34)
So is the loving overcooked? I mean, are we sending the wrong message? Because at the end of the day, this isn't an elite sporting competition. This is supposedly the toughest sporting competition in Australia because it's equalized, which means that basically every team you go out against pretty much every weekend, unless it's Richmond this year, they can beat you. And it's not really a halfway house for people with serious off field issues. So are we sending the wrong message to indigenous players who may be vulnerable?
And do we need to change tack on this? Do you think?

**Sean Gorman** (4:09)
It's a great question. Again, it's having the data to understand what is actually going on here. What are the actual drivers that are seeing these blue chip players and, you know, Norm Smith medalists and players that have, you know, played all Australian or gotten to that level. What is actually going on? What are the problems? And knowing what those things are, because you don't want a young fellow or young lady for that matter, for the AFLW to be going, all right, I'm going to suspend or disregard my apprenticeship or my nursing degree or whatever to go on to a list. And we know they've changed the category situation there to get the extra number there. To make that choice to go, my dream is always to have played AFL, to get into that system and then find that that system is incredibly hard and demanding and accentuates issues around mental health hugely. And what those choices mean at the end of the day, particularly once you are starting to hit the ages of 35, 40, 50, and you're starting to look back on your life choices at what you should and should not have done because it's becoming harder and harder to get to that elite level and to live the dream. And that's, again, it's the hyper reality of football. We see it on TV, we hear it on our screens and all the rest of it.