Dr Sean Gorman - Duff and the Doctor (09.09.2026)

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Chance Bateman (0:14)

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Mark Duffield (0:37)

I don't know whether we've got a bad case of loving him, but he's in the studio. Dr. Sean Gorman joins us, and this is Duff and the doctor. Thanks to Blackline. That is B-L-A-K Line, Aboriginal owned business delivering signage, print, promotional products, and creative services with cultural integrity and impact. Sean Gorman, welcome.

Dr Sean Gorman (0:58)

G'day, Duff. G'day, listeners. Jeez, it was touch and go, mate. Getting in here today, it was very difficult getting in. All the traffic and all the accidents and everything that's going on, it was a tough moment.

Mark Duffield (1:10)

Yeah, well, fingers crossed no one was injured, but there was a big stack on the freeway at Hay Street. There was a Ute lying on its side when I went past, and I was half an hour late getting here today off the back of that. So hopefully, everyone has emerged as well as they possibly can be in the aftermath of that because it looked like a serious bingle.

Dr Sean Gorman (1:33)

Absolutely, absolutely.

Mark Duffield (1:35)

So mate, it's been a big week, and reading the Herald Sun today, the Hawthorn racism scandal has re-emerged and been given a do-over by Michael Warner. It kind of, when I read it, it kind of felt a bit like stirring or reheating the soup a little bit.

What did you make of it all?

Chance Bateman (1:59)

Yes.

Dr Sean Gorman (2:00)

Well, look, I've still got very fond memories. I weren't at all, but back in 22, in the week in the lead up to the grand final, I was actually in the office at the AFL at HQ, down in Docklands there. And as I've said a couple of times over the course of our show, it was like someone had been killed. It honestly was that sense of dread and the feelings amongst people. People were walking around shocked and amazed, quiet.

It was really a full on situation. So I can attest that this was something that the AFL, in the aftermath of that, of all the people involved from, you know, Gillum McLaughlin, Andrew Dillon, Tanya Hosh, Brian Walsh, and a number of other senior people, they all took it very seriously too. So, but yeah, seeing the situation that it's played out with the Warner article, yeah, it does seem to be a bit of a rehash, and there's not anything really new there to sort of look at. I don't know if it's sort of the timing, given Clarkson's exit from North Melbourne, and obviously he was involved heavily with regards to Hawthorne at the time, as we would understand and know. But yeah, it's an interesting article, just from the point of view that it doesn't really say a hell of a lot than what we don't already know.

Mark Duffield (3:24)

Yeah, it felt like the investigation was botched, and so we won't really know what actually happened. And I think the other thing that happens here, and we kind of had a chat a bit about this off air, things happen and people get angry about them, and then they're confronted with a formal process. And I think this particularly applies to Indigenous people who don't like formal processes, and they don't like tribunals. I always remember Chris Lewis when he had to front the AFL Tribunal, and Louis was such a relaxed and kind of convivial guy.

And then you put him in front of the AFL Tribunal, and he would just get really, really tense and almost go into himself, and find it difficult to express himself in front of an AFL Tribunal. I get the feeling that when they were confronted with the formal part of the process, in the wake of Phil Egan's investigation, which it must be said left a lot to be desired, they kind of went into themselves. And so I'm not suggesting anyone's guilty, and I'm not suggesting they're innocent. I suspect we'll never totally get to the bottom of the situation at Hawthorn as it existed at that time.

Dr Sean Gorman (4:43)

No, absolutely. And look, let's go back even a little bit further in terms of that. The genesis for that whole situation turned out to be was Kenneth's, Jeff Kenneth's...

Mark Duffield (4:54)